Level 2 Physical Intervention techniques

S

SIETE

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Hi guys according to the Level 2 Physical Intervention techniques.



Techniques which should be avoided

Any physical intervetion and particulary forceful restraint can lead to medical complications, sudden death, permanent disability, especially where situational and individual risk factors are present.

The following carry heightened risk.


  • Strikes and kicks Any strike must be recognised as a high-risk technique: whether is a punch, kick, use of the knee, or elbow, damage is likely to be sustained and can result in falls with devastating consequences.
  • Interventions involving the neck, spine or vital organs.
  • Restraint on the ground ( face up or face down ), or other positions that impar breathing or circulation and increase risk of sudden death, for example through positonal asphyxia.
  • An individual falling or being forced to ground.

Although some of these techniques can be lawful in certain circustances, they will require high levels of justification and training. The programme seeks to provide alternatives to the above or safer methods.

NOTE: The longer the duration of the restraint the greater the risk.

ANY THOUGHTS ON IT ?????

stay safe:cool:
 
yes, many thoughts on it, most of them profane and un-publishable.
Four or five instances of Positional asphyxiation in the last 10 years or so (all in police custody) and they make a song and dance of it,.
The very idea of "non restrictive restraints" is beyond belief and surely a contradiction of terms.
The system may be alright for dealing with a pissed up muppet but try using these the approved techniques to restrain or control a coked up sociopath, if it works on them I am all for it!
 
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IST totally agree, I could spend the rest of tonight going in to minute detail as to why they have worded this like so..........but to cut a long story short I do believe this is known as CYA (covering your a**e)
 
Maybe now people will see that the money making time is over and it is time for the professional trainers to question what is practical and what is not out in the arena. It seems that anybody and his dog can hold these courses and make a quick buck! I have removed my self from the security industry until like minded professionals like me stand up and question the motives behind running such courses. I have seen the empty wallet syndrome of many young hopefuls wanting to break into the industry, shame money out ways the true cost of proper regulation and setting a good benchmark for training providers in the U.K.
 
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How do you restrain and eject someone in a way that doesn't involve the spine, considering that the legs attach to the pelvis which attaches to the spine and the arms attach to the spine in various ways, some via muscles and also via the shoulder blades and collar bones. You can't control someone without the spine being involved somehow.

Maybe we should just all think nice thoughts and levitate them out of the place!
 
Who came up with these parameters?

I'm guessing it's soemone with little if any practical experience or knowlege of being in an encounter where someone has to be removed from somewhere and they don't want to go.

Probably more experience in ticking boxes and shifting blame and responsibility that anyting physical.

Heno
 
Lets all remember this, the SIA and physical intervention authorities ask people all ways believe that everyone is compliant or gently refusing and only need a little push in the right direction.

Until the SIA and physical intervention lot (people who set the regulations, people who do anything about it) realise that after 6 pints - someone who wouldn't hurt a fly would happily take on a whole door team. Lets not even get started on the drugs. It needs to be realised that pain compliance and restriction (when used correctly and safely) are essential.
 
Whoever writes this poo has obviously never been in a good scrap or had a good kicking.
Do what you need to do.
MAKE SURE YOU CAN JUSTIFY WHATEVER COURSE OF ACTION YOU CHOOSE AND ALL WILL BE WELL.
If anyone needs any pointers on how to correctly word said justifications just ask.
The conflict management model is our best friend - do not forget it.
Fro an expert in bumhole covering :)
 
I have recently finished the lvl2 security course in Poland* and physical intervention is a part of the practical egzamination** which you have to pass. As always only certain techniques that are allowed (and some of them are crap), but you have to show that you know how to defend yourself and restrain an opponent with the use of allowed armlocks and "transport" him while being in control, if the opponent is resisting then you have to be able force him down with the use of armlock or headlock(yes I was surprised too but it is allowed) to the ground, to the flat, face down position, where you cuff him, search him, and then pick up and transport him. My (taken from UK courses) question about positional asphyxiation made our police instructor look at me with a face expression that could be saying: "are you taking a p...?"
So I guess for once they're doing something better here ;)

_________________________________________________________________
* to run a security company in Poland you need concession from the ministry of internal affairs and administration, and in order to get one you need to have lvl2 licence first.
** egzamination has the theory part, and the practical part with the physical intervention (including hancuffing and use of tonfa), if you pas the earlier then the last part is the firearms egzam.
 
The thing about positional asphyxia, is you have to be in the position for some time. This is why it is absolutely acceptable to restrain someone who is being violent, face down with the arms to the rear. Quite simply, the chances of them being in that position for long enough for the condition to develop is remote. In all cases of it actually killing someone has been present an element of neglect.

Its just the do-gooders being risk adverse as usual.
 
Scab said:
The thing about positional asphyxia, is you have to be in the position for some time. This is why it is absolutely acceptable to restrain someone who is being violent, face down with the arms to the rear. Quite simply, the chances of them being in that position for long enough for the condition to develop is remote. In all cases of it actually killing someone has been present an element of neglect.

Its just the do-gooders being risk adverse as usual.
Click to expand...


I think we can all agree to some extent that positional asphyxia is blown out of proportion on DS courses "put someone prone and THEY WILL DIE INSTANTLY"
but to be fair it is something that needs to be included in the training because it is a risk, just not as much as it is at the current time
 
Yes but if your dealing with PA as door staff then you should also consider excited delirium (drug induced mania). I think this has been covered well on this site in the past. if your not sure what the signs and symptoms are then pop along to
Watch the clips, not for amusement but to clearly make a judgment on how much force do you think is necessary and would you have made the same decision if
a. You already had enough experience to realize what you where dealing with before laying on of hands and...
b. if you had been presented with all the medical facts.

Im a great advocate of having the right to use force and do so almost daily to some degree in my duties, but take a good hard look at the expression on the face of the officer in the top clip as it finishes....Im sure he knows what type of confrontation he is about to face next from his employers, and no PI course level 2 or otherwise is going to prepare him for that.
 
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Pyrene said:
I think we can all agree to some extent that positional asphyxia is blown out of proportion on DS courses "put someone prone and THEY WILL DIE INSTANTLY"
but to be fair it is something that needs to be included in the training because it is a risk, just not as much as it is at the current time
Click to expand...

Agreed, it can be mentioned and the warning signs taught - but at the same time its worth noting that in order for force to be applied lawfully and keep its lawful status, the level being applied needs to match the level of struggle coming from our restrained person. If they start becoming hypoxic and losing consciousness, while being restrained and the people doing the restraining do not react to this they have failed to do their jobs - hence my earlier comment about the element of neglect.
 
Hmmmm some interesting reading. To become proficient and professional in these techniques requires repetition, this is something that is not possible in an 8 hour.......6 if you are lucky PI session. The SIA approved PI techniques really fall down when dealing with real aggression and I find this very frustrating. However, as some one who has been training in Control and restraint for the last 12 years this is the difference.....to train and individual to a standard where i can put my hand on my heart and say they will do a professional job is two days a week for 8 weeks....SIA PI 6 hours!!??....if you were to teach an individual anything other than a non pain compliant technique they would be a danger to themselves...the customer....and the trainer!
Regarding positional asphyxia, cant agree with the comment that you need to be in this position for a long time to die........it really depends on the discipline of the operatives carrying out the techniques, pressure on the torso after exertion.....a few minutes and it can all be over!!......that takes me back to my earlier statement of what can you do in 6-8 hours?
What is a let down is the fact that in the private security industry PI is a free for all to make money. There should be a set manual that everyone should follow...not the 200 + techniques for covering 20 or so learning out comes.
As we are all aware, most of the techniques are poor and not fit for purpose, and may give the operative a false sense of security.....and some are downright dangerous to all parties and have obviously been devised by someone who has never faced violence in real life, or who understands the full level of threat.....ie, a punch or head butt that will follow the particular grab.
I could go on and on but will leave it there for now!
 
Scorp you ve made a lot of sense there. yes it is an eye opener when we see newly badged personnel trying to impress his fellow workers with techniques that have just been acquired in a session and yet most of the experienced amoungst are still training and up dating all the time.......some very good points have been made on this thread as usual by people like ourselves who have been doing this for a long time, experienced and by our own faults, mistakes that have been learn t from and advised about to others for that I salute all of you.....maybe its time to consider if it was feasable for companies to be responsible for the training of their personnel at least it would be a constant practice with invitations to others to attend ???? I do have the feeling that the SIA with some of their intentions are a touch out of the real world in dealing with issues such as this and are somehow looking at how not to be reponsible for deaths or being sued.....fair enough... but given a situation I am looking after someone therefore I need to protect them and others and myself......so I will do whatever needed....some of the comments about drug induced mania absolutely spot on....we are dealing in some cases with a person who has gone from a normal being to a TEN MAN pyschopath who wants to chew my face off and kill everyone around him ( sorry people, they really do exist...not just Harry Potter) and the SIA are worried about P A mmmmmmm when the police turn up EVENTUALLY they SPRAY/ CUFF/STRAP/ SIX COPPERS on to him etc and then take him away.....then late on ask me about how I restrained him eh????? maybe we could go on the same courses the Police go on just my thoughts ( but i like them )
 
I would love to meet the people who have written the PI course. I am 51yrs 5ft 7'', yes I have been on the doors for some years, but have also had experience in dealing with violent people over the years in the different jobs I have done. Yes where I work now is a very lively club and if I don't stop a fight before it starts it will blow-up very quickly, but like everywhere, when you deal with one problem & escorting someone out, another problem can start behind your back and you walk back in and you have 2/3 blokes or women fighting, you have to stop it the best way you can and get them out...I must admit, i've never done a necklock and have my own way of dealing with people.

But I would like to know, is How will they teach people to deal with this drug called 'Bath Salts' (which is bad in the UK, like many drugs) Known as Cloud Nine and man made, known to some as the Zombie drug due to the effects it has on some people, this year in the USA they have seen the problems, they either want to kill themselves or other people by eating them and those of you that remember the days of PCP, well this can be alot worse. This was take from the media site.........

A SPATE of horrific zombie-style cannibal attacks were last night feared caused by a drug called Cloud Nine.

The legal high was first linked to an attack last week when naked maniac Rudy Eugene, 31, chewed off most of a tramp’s face.
He was shot dead by police who caught him gnawing at Ronald Poppo on a street in Miami, Florida, US.
Now the city’s cops have been told to be on guard after a second chilling incident.
Crazed Brandon De Leon, 21, snarled at two officers who arrested him for shouting and swearing in a restaurant: “I’m going to eat you.”
He growled and grunted like an animal and tried to sink his teeth into a cop’s hand before an anti-bite mask was fitted to him.
Police suspect both attackers took Cloud Nine — branded “addictive and dangerous” and sold labelled as bath salts.

It is also feared to be behind two other cannibal attacks in America.
Carl Jacquneaux, 43, bit a chunk out of the face of Todd Credeur in Scott, Louisiana.
And student Alex Kinyua, 21, killed a man with a knife and ate his heart and brain in Baltimore, Maryland.
He later bragged about “human sacrifice” on Facebook.
Cloud Nine, also called Ivory Wave, was banned in Britain after deaths. In one case, chef Michael Bishton, 24, hallucinated and fell off a 300ft cliff.

If this hits our streets full on, how would they tell people to deal with this...... As I am sorry, but I will do anything to protect my customers & my colleagues from this sort of attack with any means possible and I think the police would have to agree, do what you can if someone is going crazy.....If you haven't seen the film Max Payne, this is based on this drug.

Whatever you do CP, DS or SG, you do what you need to do at that moment, know matter what someone has taught you or you have learnt, there are times where you haven't the time too think you just react, to protect yourself & others and there are some who may agree & others that don't, but it works for me & I leave work knowning I have done my job. Cheers Jen
 
Even without Zombie flesh eaters there is clearly a major problem here.
I did a PI course a few weeks ago, and although the instructor obviously had a lot of experience, and was a very good instructor, the course was a bloody bad joke (and I'm sure he thought so too).
In a former life I was a 'personal safety' instructor for 20 years and have already had rather too much experience of dealing with violent people, drunk, drugged, psychotic and just plain bad.
I found, like others, that the course was not only useless but dangerous. If I had applied any of those techniques to some of the idiots I had to deal with in my 30 years as a copper, I would have expected an escalation of violence to result, certainly there was no control or restraint.
As we see all to often, the course is not really about dealing with important issues but has obviously been designed as a blatant money making scheme for awarding bodies and training establishments.
I taught Government approved self defence techniques, specifically for use in close protection for 10 years and thought that doing the PI course would allow me to teach what I have learned on our SIA CP courses, what a waste of money?!!!
If the Government has approved these techniques for the police then surely they can approve them for the private sector.
The training requirements are already established (I know, I still have my manual).
They only need to substitute expressions such as 'Arrest technique' for 'Restraint technique' and voila, we are there.
In relation to positional asphyxia, nearly everyone who died of PA was held down for too long in a van or cell, since the police are now aware of it I don't believe it has happened. After the initial take down and cuff, people are either brought to their feet or turned onto their sides where they cannot asphyxiate. There is nothing instant about Positional asphyxia, if you are trained and know what to do it shouldn't happen.
If someone is violent and may hurt somebody else, it doesn't matter if they have an existing medical condition or they are out of their heads on drugs, they still have to be restrained.
 
The information produced here is very interesting. These security services are very necessary for the protection of people or things or any others, The proper standards and tips are very useful in the case of training period for competing the task successfully. Since, It was very tough to get rid of the circumstances, the precautions for safety is very necessary.


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http://www.closeprotectionworld.com/misc.php?do=page&template=advertise
 
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