Pre-emptive Knife taking

That was a truly overwhelming counter to my point where I took a moment to explain my thinking. Well done sir, you have bested me.

Sarcasm aside: Funny that, because you can use one arm to block the incoming strike and the other to strike the face or throat. Thus, breaking or stalling the attack chain.

The simultaneous attack and defence, also known as the tactical response forms the crux of modern fighting systems which are real-world proven.

But hey, if you would rather arm wrestle with someone holding a knife and think you can neatly switch back and forth if your attacker swaps hands; you feel free. Tell me, how long are you going to do that for without getting 'cut to ribbons' ?
 
Scab said:
That was a truly overwhelming counter to my point where I took a moment to explain my thinking. Well done sir, you have bested me.

Sarcasm aside: Funny that, because you can use one arm to block the incoming strike and the other to strike the face or throat. Thus, breaking or stalling the attack chain.

The simultaneous attack and defence, also known as the tactical response forms the crux of modern fighting systems which are real-world proven.

But hey, if you would rather arm wrestle with someone holding a knife and think you can neatly switch back and forth if your attacker swaps hands; you feel free. Tell me, how long are you going to do that for without getting 'cut to ribbons' ?
Click to expand...

You stick to striking your opponent multiple times Scab (Whilst he does what? stand there and allow you, or will he plunge you multiple times as you one finger monkey claw him.) Or are you waxing on,waxing off blocking..... blocking a knife... with what flesh!!!!!! Hopefully neither of us will have to try our favoured method out!!!
 
as long as you have control of the edged weapon hand with a vice like grip (similar to the youtube vid thats been put) and then unleash hell with your free hand,head,knee,sweep etc then its a viable tactic moreso than the 'i block with x and turn it y way' i have to add,after being on the end of attacks of this nature myself,it must be a very very last resort.
 
Last edited:
I've beat this thread to death - and I don't like do that.

I agree with the idea that you should walk away - or run away - if you are confronted by a guy with a knife. I wouldn't hesitate to disengage if I possibly could. However, the main problem is that criminals with knives often use them as stealth weapons. You will not see the knife until the last seconds. Very likely it will be some sort of surprise attack or ambush. The people who do this are not idiots ... they are good at concealment. So your knife defense techniques do need to cover close range engagements - because that's exactly what the attcker will do. However, students need a LOT of preparation to be ready for these skills. It takes a long time to get to a level where the defensive techniques stand a chance of working. The advantage is always to the attacker with the knife ... because he has surprise, close range, and a lethal weapon.

We do not teach students to "lock up" the knife in a defensive engagement. There are other (much better) approaches. It would be enormously risky to try to do a "knife take away" as a defense against a prepared opponent. It is true that the "take aways" are taught during classes. But students are never told to go out and just do that technique. They are exposed to a variety of techniques so they can see how things work. Let me emphasize this - because it's tremendously important. Beginning and intermediate students will NEVER get a full grasp of the techniques. Hence the rumors that circulate about "he said this" or "they do that" are usually not founded on a proper understanding. It takes a lot of time and training to get proficient with the knife techniques. The beginning students don't have the skills or time to realize "what they don't know".

I agree that real engagements with live blades would be the best training for a real engagment. I don't need to tell you why that would be a tremendously bad idea with most students. Advanced people DO train with real blades. But it takes a person a long time to build up the skills, awareness and confidence with techniques - before your instructor would ever TRUST you in that way. Most people never get there ... they just didn't put the time into the art to reach that level. Yo cannot blame instructors for working this way ... they've got no reason to take those kinds of risks themselves. A really good instrcutor can QUICKLY see how much blade awareness you've got. Most people have got much less awareness than they THINK they've got. :-)

KL
 
I'm no expert but I done a bit of training for obvious reasons
One 'technique' I like very much is someone thrusts a blade at me, grab the wrist with one hand, their elbow with the other while 'blading' myself to the outside of their reach and hopefully avoid the stab. Next push the wrist while pulling the elbow to bend the arm (you can sway your body back over to generate more force if you need) while directing the blade into your attackers abdomen - the blade's quite safe once stuck into their stomach and you can take your leave of the situation.
 
titanx said:
You stick to striking your opponent multiple times Scab (Whilst he does what? stand there and allow you, or will he plunge you multiple times as you one finger monkey claw him.) Or are you waxing on,waxing off blocking..... blocking a knife... with what flesh!!!!!! Hopefully neither of us will have to try our favoured method out!!!
Click to expand...

Get a grip. Are you serious? Block a knife with flesh? No, the motion of the limb it's attached to. If you can't bring anything objective to the table but your own opinion, nothing informed, nothing you can provide of substance just leave it be. Do you think someone is just going to present an arm for grabbing? Like I said before, if you don't do something to break the attack chain, you ate under a sustained attack for which you are going to do what if you do grab the arm... Have a dance like in that video. Good luck, I hope neither of us, anyone has to use this stuff for real also, but I certainly hope you don't if you end up doing all that wrestling crap.

That is blatant classic martial art. Also, what uf there is more than one of them?

And to be extra picky, why like someone's post who says hitting them is good while disagreeing with me?
 
Scab said:
Get a grip. Are you serious? Block a knife with flesh? No, the motion of the limb it's attached to. If you can't bring anything objective to the table but your own opinion, nothing informed, nothing you can provide of substance just leave it be. Do you think someone is just going to present an arm for grabbing? Like I said before, if you don't do something to break the attack chain, you ate under a sustained attack for which you are going to do what if you do grab the arm... Have a dance like in that video. Good luck, I hope neither of us, anyone has to use this stuff for real also, but I certainly hope you don't if you end up doing all that wrestling crap.

That is blatant classic martial art. Also, what uf there is more than one of them?

And to be extra picky, why like someone's post who says hitting them is good while disagreeing with me?
Click to expand...

Whoa fella..... breath!!!!! No I wasn't being serious about blocking a blade with flesh.... but I thought you had grasped the concept of sarcasm! Let me bring my two pennies worth to the table. My thoughts are...... My main effort would be to control the hand/wrist which the blade is being held in to attempt to stop the blade coming into contact with me.... note word attempt. After I have done that, then I will attempt to disarm the attacker through any method which presents itself. Be that a head but, foot stomp, knee strike or whatever. Practise it Scab in your gym..... Get a practise blade, coat the edges with bright coloured chalk and drill some defences..... see what pretty patterns you end up with on your self. As for multiple attackers.... that's why I'm a good Christian! As for traditional martial arts..... I would only practise a martial art which you regularly spar with a live opponent... boxing, muay thai, bjj, submission wrestling. But hey its only an opinion, don't let it get to you
 
Notting wrong with this reaction. It's a moment and you decide to handle it. How would you feel if view min later he attacked someone....

Well done.
 
all these moves sound GRRRREAT but

i would like to see these moves being used on a football hooligan with a stanley knife as in

some one who is used to using a very sharp knife and is not affaid of using the fecking thing

then we will see what is the best move lol

plasters anyone lol

cheers ed
 
titanx said:
Whoa fella..... breath!!!!! No I wasn't being serious about blocking a blade with flesh.... but I thought you had grasped the concept of sarcasm! Let me bring my two pennies worth to the table. My thoughts are...... My main effort would be to control the hand/wrist which the blade is being held in to attempt to stop the blade coming into contact with me.... note word attempt. After I have done that, then I will attempt to disarm the attacker through any method which presents itself. Be that a head but, foot stomp, knee strike or whatever. Practise it Scab in your gym..... Get a practise blade, coat the edges with bright coloured chalk and drill some defences..... see what pretty patterns you end up with on your self. As for multiple attackers.... that's why I'm a good Christian! As for traditional martial arts..... I would only practise a martial art which you regularly spar with a live opponent... boxing, muay thai, bjj, submission wrestling. But hey its only an opinion, don't let it get to you
Click to expand...

I am breathing, what I dislike is someone saying "You will get cut" and leaving it at that. Tell me WHY I will get cut. Quantify your rationale over mine.

I teach knife defence. Among what I teach people is: You will probably get cut, if you don't good on you.

They also get an uncompromising flurry of frantic attacks. Never yet seen anyone be able to grab the attackers arm without getting stabbed first. Yet if you BLOCK that incoming stab and at the same time counterstrike to the face (with emphasis on the eyes) or throat - both in an upward motion to throw the attackers head back then unless you are the person that is unlucky enough to get that mythical indestructable crackhead you *should* interrupt that attack flurry (or chain) and be able to follow up with a ton of aggression - or retreat, excuse me, am not French - tactically withdraw

Now your man there has you fishing around to take control of the knife arm before doing anything to interrupt the attackers thought process. Even neatly swapping hands during the exercise. Nice with a good bad guy. But tell me how that, and then wrestling with them is viable?

That is all I'm asking. Telling me my way is dud and that's it is nothing more than telling you think I am wrong, but not why.

I apologise if I came across as aggressive there, my patience with people who are seemingly unwilling to offer intelligent debate has grown very thin of late.
 
ed said:
all these moves sound GRRRREAT but

i would like to see these moves being used on a football hooligan with a stanley knife as in

some one who is used to using a very sharp knife and is not affaid of using the fecking thing

then we will see what is the best move lol

plasters anyone lol

cheers ed
Click to expand...

worked for me!
when i was attacked with my first stanley blade,to my neck,the only art i trained in at the time was muay thai.i didnt see the blade it was that fast and thought it was a punch! i stopped it with a wedge block and issued a pasting,on top of that he was given 18 months at her majestys pleasure just for good measure :-)
Taking away the bravado,it was a christmas eve and about 2 hours after,i was hit with the worst adrenal dump ever and started thinking of the consequences if that blade had got about an inch further.awful experience,truly awful
 
Last edited:
well you are lucky mate but like you said you thought it was a punch if you had seen the blade would you have done anything different knowing how good a stanley is at cutting flesh

then the outcome may have not been the same mate as im sure you will agree

seeing the blade and not seeing a blade is to different things

many arts teach disarming of knives ( about 6 to 8 inch blade ) not many teach you to disarm an attacker with two stanley blades with a 10 pence pice in the middle ( unless some new ninja warrior course has sprung up and only certain people know about it)

ed
 
it was far too quick ed,he was a determined attacker not bothered with the consequences.keeping it hidden until the last second.I was training full time 5 days a week and I only just managed to get my hand up to block it (thinking it was a punch) never mind trying to grab the wrist,arm or whatever.
 
i had about the same mate but it was a bottle caught me on the turn around seen it coming thinking it to be a punch stepped back centred my weight raise the arm in a sweeping motion to block the punch but gravity was not on my side and the motion and weight of the bottle caught me on the head if it had been a punch i was clear a very good block if i say so myself looked very classy until the bottle hit my head and then it all went pear shaped fecking defence is out the window when you cant see lol

i spent 4 years training lol just to end up looking like a twat lol

ed
 
Any decent defense will work in the situation in which it was designed to work, wrong defense for the situation and you're in trouble, especially where blades are concerned.
Ed hit the nail on the head - you can't defend against what you don't see
 
Scab said:
I am breathing, what I dislike is someone saying "You will get cut" and leaving it at that. Tell me WHY I will get cut. Quantify your rationale over mine.

I teach knife defence. Among what I teach people is: You will probably get cut, if you don't good on you.

They also get an uncompromising flurry of frantic attacks. Never yet seen anyone be able to grab the attackers arm without getting stabbed first. Yet if you BLOCK that incoming stab and at the same time counterstrike to the face (with emphasis on the eyes) or throat - both in an upward motion to throw the attackers head back then unless you are the person that is unlucky enough to get that mythical indestructable crackhead you *should* interrupt that attack flurry (or chain) and be able to follow up with a ton of aggression - or retreat, excuse me, am not French - tactically withdraw

Now your man there has you fishing around to take control of the knife arm before doing anything to interrupt the attackers thought process. Even neatly swapping hands during the exercise. Nice with a good bad guy. But tell me how that, and then wrestling with them is viable?

That is all I'm asking. Telling me my way is dud and that's it is nothing more than telling you think I am wrong, but not why.

I apologise if I came across as aggressive there, my patience with people who are seemingly unwilling to offer intelligent debate has grown very thin of late.
Click to expand...

I did debate it.... cant you read? You carry out your fists of fury routine Scab, see what hurts more fists of fury with a knife or fists of fury with your upward palm strike..... thats why your wrong......if you dont incapacitate with your mythical neck crack...( It needs to go up and twist violently.) immediately your gonna get multiple stab wounds. How many knife attacks have you personally witnessed where the defender has grabbed the wrist..... thought so? Its all in the gym mate with a rubber blade.... So its all ifs and buts... read back my posts... i am debating with you. Dont get so uptight dude.... chill!
 
ed said:
well you are lucky mate but like you said you thought it was a punch if you had seen the blade would you have done anything different knowing how good a stanley is at cutting flesh

then the outcome may have not been the same mate as im sure you will agree

seeing the blade and not seeing a blade is to different things

many arts teach disarming of knives ( about 6 to 8 inch blade ) not many teach you to disarm an attacker with two stanley blades with a 10 pence pice in the middle ( unless some new ninja warrior course has sprung up and only certain people know about it)

ed
Click to expand...
Ill never forget the millenium (not in a good way!) stabbed in the leg 3 times and didnt know until I thought I had pissed myself as my trousers became all hot and wet (Again not in a good way.)
 
ok mate

yes scab can be a hot head some times but abit of respect would not go amiss

scab is a long time member with alot of respect from many members who know him

you are new and are not know so time and place you can reply but lets keep it in context its not a pissing match

cheers ed
 
ed said:
ok mate

yes scab can be a hot head some times but abit of respect would not go amiss

scab is a long time member with alot of respect from many members who know him

you are new and are not know so time and place you can reply but lets keep it in context its not a pissing match

cheers ed
Click to expand...
Agreed Ed never wanted it to be, just putting my point across on something which is pretty personal to me, if I have offended anyone I apologise..... healthy debate sometimes gets heated
 
Back
Top