slow down intake into the industry for 6 months....

M

maddog

Longterm Registered User
With the market getting flooded, and people flapping about if we are going to have the right number of security officers for some event we have coming up in London!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can we bridge the gap now? Should there be a limit on training companies? Does a 13 day course make you able to say your A cpo? many questions to ask, as our industry seem to be getting worse and no-one really gives a fook that people are just being put though a course take there cash and join the massive que of people trying to make ago of it.

Its just a thought if you look at things, when the police,fire,forces or full the slow down rec. something needs to be done cause good lads are losing out on jobs...... Please comment and put your views forward

mad
 
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In my opinion, training providers should only be allowed to train the number of people that will fulfil their specific requirements for operational purposes - hard to govern yes....but it would stop the 'pop-up' training provider from making quick money and flooding the market.

Walks
 
It's an idea Walks but not all training company's provide close protection services and vice versa not all Close protection company's provide training.

The general impression I have got from using this forum is that while there are hundreds upon hundreds of training providers in the UK it seems that there are maybe 10 or less whose name is actually worth anything. When someone new comes to the forum seeking information on who to their training with, the same company names come up time and time again. Now while getting your training from Ex-22/RMP/SO1/SO14/whoever may not instantly make you a good CPO, I think if a trainer has done his/her job then they will have armed you with the basic knowledge to build upon. Also hopefully their course will be of a standard that not everyone can pass and only those worthy of the pass will achieve it. I realise that this doesn't stop the influx of dross but having 'Graduate of X training company' on your CV will hopefully stand you in better stead than having done your course with the hundreds of "CP Licence-R-us" chip shop operations out there.

Give employers a reason to keep you're CV for further consideration rather than binning with the mountains of crap they have to wade through day in, day out.
 
goods points brought up on this cheers maddog

i think that a CP TP company should have at least 10yrs full employment under his belt in most fields conected to CP in a non hostile country before considering a carrer in training the subject

DS TP needs at least 5 yrs not as much to learn as with CP but more work done on a Regular basis

just a thought cheers ed
 
AshG said:
It's an idea Walks but not all training company's provide close protection services and vice versa not all Close protection company's provide training.
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That is exactly the cause of the problem - there is nothing governing the demand over what is being produced. If this model of demand vs production was implemented in any other business sector, they would be out of Business very quickly or be viewed as having the most outragious business plan and ethics.

Its very sad to see that people will quite happily hand over their hard earnt money and in some cases tax payers money (Military resettlement, job centre courses etc...) thinking that they even have a sniff at a job at the end of it when there is blatently nothing around for them that they would even consider doing - something needs to be done and I'm sorry to say that the only body in any position to do anything is the SIA!
Walks
 
For the majority of people entering into CP, or what they perceive to be CP, a 2 week course is adequate. For those who are actually going to be doing what is CP, then a longer course, with ongoing training is required.

Fact is, there are many people who say their profession is Close Protection, when in actual fact, they are doing something else in the industry but on a CP badge. The age old question of what do you do for a living? Often comes back with Close Protection for those with the badge, but how many of those are actually doing the role.

To go back to the question in hand though, there are training companies, because there is a demand for the training. Regardless of if there is the work about, you only have to read magazines such as Quest to see they are full of CP training courses and now, marsec courses. All eager to get their hands on the resettlement money.

The olympics will give many who would'nt normally get an opportunity, a taste of what its like, but after the olympics many will go back to what they were doing before, claiming benefits. The top tier jobs, will be taken by top tier people, the lower end will be filled with the 'out of the box' security guards etc. If you're one of the ones who has experience and pedigree, then surely you have nothing to worry about, even after the olympics has finished?
 
bandook said:
For the majority of people entering into CP, or what they perceive to be CP, a 2 week course is adequate. For those who are actually going to be doing what is CP, then a longer course, with ongoing training is required.

Fact is, there are many people who say their profession is Close Protection, when in actual fact, they are doing something else in the industry but on a CP badge. The age old question of what do you do for a living? Often comes back with Close Protection for those with the badge, but how many of those are actually doing the role.

To go back to the question in hand though, there are training companies, because there is a demand for the training. Regardless of if there is the work about, you only have to read magazines such as Quest to see they are full of CP training courses and now, marsec courses. All eager to get their hands on the resettlement money.

The olympics will give many who would'nt normally get an opportunity, a taste of what its like, but after the olympics many will go back to what they were doing before, claiming benefits. The top tier jobs, will be taken by top tier people, the lower end will be filled with the 'out of the box' security guards etc. If you're one of the ones who has experience and pedigree, then surely you have nothing to worry about, even after the olympics has finished?
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well said bandook


all the best

cheers ed
 
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slow down intake into the industry for 6 months....

Intriguing idea, but...

You expect the TP's, who make their money by putting as many blokes through the meatgrinder, in as short a time as possible...to slow down, and not make as much money ?

...yup, that'll work. :(
 
I just replied to a TP on linkedin who was boasting about their table top 50 hour course in the USA, it makes me mad that these companies are turning out people with a CP badge but they are not fit to mind my cat let alone a principal.
Personally I ahve taken a couple of guys who were DS qualified for 6 years, then did their CP courses, I now have them on RST so they can see how the whole CP RST team works together. Its sort of the old fashioned apprentice scheme but it works for me. I believe in helping the next generation as they are the CPO's of the future.
What I dont want is an industry full of wannabbes with a badge.

I also think trainers should have worked in the industry for 10 years before they are allowed to train.

Just my thoughts
FBG
 
fbg said:
...
I also think trainers should have worked in the industry for 10 years before they are allowed to train.
FBG
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I agree with fbg, 'virgins cant teach you to ****' is a trueism that seemingly applies to our industry ever since the inception of the SIA. There were certain TPs around before it, but they seem to have multiplied tenfold since. It began in the door industry and continued into CP. the simple truth is that the powers that be DO NOT understand the industry they are trying to govern.
 
FBG, Well said Sir, I too feel that even guys going into CP should have had at least that and more before even attending a CP course, it would show to the rest of us that have had 25 years under their belt that the training organisations gave a rats about the quality they are spilling out and not the quantity.

The bottom line if you don't have the experience, then learn the the initial trade before you pursue.

Your thoughts gentlemen and ladies on this thread, I am very passionate about this and it will always be my biggest bug gripe.

Once again well said to all especially FBG, keep the thoughts rolling in guys.
 
NEMES1S29 said:
FBG, Well said Sir, I too feel that even guys going into CP should have had at least that and more before even attending a CP course, it would show to the rest of us that have had 25 years under their belt that the training organisations gave a rats about the quality they are spilling out and not the quantity.

The bottom line if you don't have the experience, then learn the the initial trade before you pursue.

Your thoughts gentlemen and ladies on this thread, I am very passionate about this and it will always be my biggest bug gripe.

Once again well said to all especially FBG, keep the thoughts rolling in guys.
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I think this is more of an issue with churning out massive numbers of operatives with no jobs to go to and then having the cost of siad operatives been driven down by people undercutting each other to get the role and thus driving down the quality.

The sad fact is that unless someone excersises some type of control this issue will cause a massive decline in the quality of the security industry as a whole - and I can't see anyone wanting to contol it.

This is one of the reasons why I stay away from security work now.

Walks
 
Walks, I could not have said it better, I agree with you the dross that is being churned out is clear to see.

There should be a slow down rate that all training organisations churn out, but it is such a money making machine and the organisations knows this, all the new guys coming on to the circuit have no idea what it takes, they are sold the fact that they will get jobs out of it, which is just wrong and that is definitely one area which I cannot believe still goes on but it is so easy to real in the ones that have no idea, the inexperienced.

But there has to be something put in place to govern numbers by any means possible, this site alone show you the amount of new guys coming along every second, with no idea of conduct, mannerism or etiquette to do the job correctly in the first place.

I would rather be professional in my approach to the job than be a numpty any day
 
you cant get experience unless you do the job, yes there should be more strict tests and valuations but how far do you go, u need experience how do you get that experience guys. well tell me how you guys got experience in HE then i,ll tell you, guys that came into the industry 10/12 years ago had no experience didnt even do a course where are they now ops managers PMs ect, I know a few dunderheads who couldnt spell tactics/operations never mind conduct them in a team, those guys are now the heirachy in the industry wheres the answer.
 
The whole conceptual approach to training needs to change. With the exception of many TP' no doubt, I believe the industry as a whole is pretty much in agreement that the SIA model is flawed in its entirety and you all know my view point on it.

There should be pre-course requisites insofar as minimum age, medical and physical fitness standards, held a driving license for more than 5 years and so on.

The CP course has a duty to properly train individuals in Close Protection and not merely subscribe to a process that does not meet the demands and requirements of the operational environment. Courses that encompass those aspects of CP in their entirety in terms of content and the length of time devoted to each training objective within that syllabus. The course needs to embrace a code of standards across industry that if not met by either the TP or student alike are failed.

When an individual has met the standards imposed and has been satisfactorily tested then they should not be allowed to operate in the full scope of CP that the employment entails but rather is gradually introduced to the role in what could be termed a probationary period of around 2 years whereby only RST and other specific employment roles could be undertaken. Only then could that individual be employed in an IBG role.


I can guarantee that the above will not happen. Why? It is not that the process may be difficult to implement or enforce but that because the industry has no such care. It has no such care due to profitability and market forces. CP training providers are a business. CP operations are business. We are all aware of the ex this and ex that who rely on their previous regiments/ units name but in reality are over-weight, unaware, and lack diligence and integrity. Employers employ them based on their army career and they skip the professional hurdles of standards based on the same.


This is all a generalisation of course but the underlying theme here is that the industry requires an organisation that is independent, transparent and knowledgeable. Not an Authority that has biased and conflicting views. Let us see what 2013 will bring. It will be interesting.


But I won't be holding my breath.



Rich H
 
It's the same in every industry at the moment. Not just CP ... 2.6 million unemployed in the UK alone all wanting a job. All these people are looking for training and work. (Well most of them minus the ones on Jerremy Kyle) The British forces cutting more jobs than ever and the age old rumour that CP and Offshore is a honey pot of work when in fact there are no honey pot's left.... We are in a GLOBAL economic downturn.

Course providers are not going to slow the wheel and go with supply for demand... they are buisnesses at the end of the day (Some better than others) but they make money .. period!

The only thing that will slow the providers is if a governing body makes as suggested minimum requirements. Enough so to increase the legnth and cost of the courses. Pricing and timing people out.

I feel your pain...
 
I have said this on here before and I'll say it again. Those of you who wish to peer into the future of this industry to understand what it may look like in let's say 10 years time..? Look no further than the Bus industry now and the lead up following 'De-regulation'... Now I am fully aware that we are witnessing 'Regulation' in this industry and that's a different subject but quite frankly the 'Business Model' is very similar and one looks carefully you can see a similar conceptual mission.

With regard to the limitation of Training Providers..? forget it, it's never going to happen while the UK remains in Europe and is obliged to adhere to 'Restricted Practice' legislation... which actually? I support.

But I whole heartedly agree that it's a mess, in fact I would go even further and say that it's a contrived mess and it was avoidable... but hey... for those of you that haven't been around industry for a protracted amount of time? this is what happens when an Industry sits on its backside and allows Politicians and Academics to run the Asylum...

So in summary? Predicted, avoidable and quite frankly an unwelcomed mess...

CD
 
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