SWAT = SAS or SO15 / 19 etc

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Thanks for the answer, to be honest it was that wiki page and the fact that the sas delt with the embasy that was conflicting with each other but thanks for the clear up.
Scab if you want to tell yourself your talking to a 15 year old over the internet be my guest but thats a whole diffrent kettle of fish "LOL".
I do have a great respect for anyone that willing to help others or do a job like any of these listed on this site, not just because their older than me, but cheers for the advice.
 
Mark.. Thanks for coming back to us and allaying any concerns by the membership...
Speaking for myself, it wasn't the nature of the question, but how it was worded that caused the concern..
 
I fully agree with Hippy,
Hence the two words: respect and humble.
Looking at your last post, I shouldn't have mentioned them :cool:
 
Ninja, not really, when you consider how the first post was worded it raised doubts to me personally as to what Mark2602's intentions were, I still stand by my right to question the poster's intentions but realise that he has provided a legitimate reason to know the information.

If you feel that I'm paranoid or overreacting then so be it, we are in the SECURITY business, so must ask questions to be sure of what/who we are dealing with (absence of the normal or presence of the abnormal.......)
 
Surely it doesn't matter who posts the question as anyone can read this forum. (unless answered by PM)
 
Sutty:
Parking in the City is always difficult. And you'd have to pay the congestion charge. There are loads of cameras about, too. Don't want to put you off your chosen career path, but there are several other smaller banks you might consider, eh?
And where's Steve Collins when you need him? He'd have knocked this one out ages ago...poor choice of phrase there, may be.
 
sentinel said:
Sutty:
Parking in the City is always difficult. And you'd have to pay the congestion charge. There are loads of cameras about, too. Don't want to put you off your chosen career path, but there are several other smaller banks you might consider, eh?
And where's Steve Collins when you need him? He'd have knocked this one out ages ago...poor choice of phrase there, may be.
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crap I just bought a spud gun and a Pair of tights....lol
 
Mark2602 said:
Hey guys
This aint a question about who gets to go round shooting, looking like a bad ass so dont worry, was just wondering about to what extent the SO.. forces deal with extreame armed i.e. terrorists / hostage situations within england. Obviously there is not as many serias gun crime situations in england compaired to america, but if there was one, would it be the Armed forces SAS who went in to deal with it or the police forces armed uints.
Cheers for any info
Mark
P.s. I realise there is alot of serias gun crime in england, when i say serias im refering to situations where a seige of a public building would occur.
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I 'am not a native English speaker but this is really bad English, i'd say its a 12 year old from abroad with bad idea's on his mind...
 
Mark2602 said:
Hey guys
This aint a question about who gets to go round shooting, looking like a bad ass so dont worry, was just wondering about to what extent the SO.. forces deal with extreame armed i.e. terrorists / hostage situations within england. Obviously there is not as many serias gun crime situations in england compaired to america, but if there was one, would it be the Armed forces SAS who went in to deal with it or the police forces armed uints.
Cheers for any info
Mark
P.s.I realise there is alot of serias gun crime in england, when i say serias im refering to situations where a seige of a public building would occur.[/quote]

Mark, dangerous to be a policeman anywhere in the world - potential for seige situations anywhere - doesn't have to be a firearm - can be a whole range of weapons. Unfortunately it's a mistake made sometimes by police officers themselves, complacent, underestimate, and at times proves to be fatal. Anywhere there are people there are those sorts of problems - and plenty of them.
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Mark, I respect your aspirations. Please remember that there are many hurdles when trying to become a police officer. Rather than saying that you want to be armed response, focus on becoming a police officer (and ultimately getting through the selection process which is difficult enough for some people as it is) and dealing with the every day situations that they have to deal with. You may find something completely different that interests you.

Being armed response is on a complete different level than being a beat bobby. There is far more to being armed response than just being able to shoot a weapon. You have to be at the top of your game, both physically and mentally. You have to prove that you are an excellent police officer.

On a different note, you may also want to spell check your posts. Remember, there are spelling tests in the police selection process and the majority of police work is evolved around writing statements!

Anyway, you may want to get yourself to your local library and borrow some books on the different units that you mention. They will tell you all you ever need to know and more.
 
Hi Charlie, I am RMP myself but we have specialist units to which the above principles still apply.

I also have quite a few friends/contacts in civ pol to get an idea of what they go through and whats what.

I know some beat officers who have tried time and time again to specialise in particular areas but have been unsuccessful due to being out-performed by other officers. Not to say they are bad officers, just that there were better officers at particular things.

I also know quite a few in all sorts of specialist employment and they let me know what sort of things that they have had to go through to get where they are.

Like I say, the hardest hurdle is becoming an officer in the first place!
 
mmorg3053 said:
Being armed response is on a complete different level than being a beat bobby. There is far more to being armed response than just being able to shoot a weapon. You have to be at the top of your game, both physically and mentally. You have to prove that you are an excellent police officer..
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Alas I have to play devils advocate and disagree:eek:

The Home Office/ Met have recently carried out feasability studies into fast tracking suitable officers straight into firearms units. Why do you need a highly skilled very costly trained police officer to carry a weapon when you can recruit in a former serviceman train him to a suitable standard and he will fulfill the role. Why does he need to complete a probationary period serve on proactive units crime teams traffic anpr cid etc etc with all the cost implications to the taxpayer to get to a position some 5-10 years later, that he was doing to a similar extent in the forces?

As for the level they are at being different to a beat bobby depends on length of service and relevant skill sets? I have encountered teams of very experienced "beat bobbies" whom command great respect from public and peers...! I have also encountered teams of complete oxygen thieves (both on shift and specialist units)

Now the team of top officers at a busy sub division are out kicking arse and taking names and inevitably getting complaints! The station cat from a quite sub division inevitable gets no complaints!

When it comes to applying for a position the experienced officer fails the paper sift (carried out by a civillian support worker) and the oxygen thief (who has spent a few shifts indoors fine tuning his application) gets the job.

Now the flip side is once enough oxygen thieves get into a team the team fragments and often in a very short period of time the experienced officers all jump ship and end up playing devils advocate on threads like this!

Now in the military there is a system in place for dealing with fireams incidents/contacts that is tried and tested (basically close with the enemy and kill/neutralise and back to clean your rifle before tea and medals and a few beers with your mates) If the situation is slightly tits up there are flying lawyers to guide the serviceman along..

Alas in the Cops it is slightly different..basically close with the bad guys and try to catch them!should you shoot one! dont clean your rifle have it seized along with your warrant card and off home for a couple of years till it gets sorted out..... albeit your on full pay there is no overtime and limited contact with your colleagues... the officer ends up out of ticket on all his qualifications and is back at square one should he ever return to the police....

So err why would you want to be a shot?
 
Womanwheresmytea said:
Alas I have to play devils advocate and disagree:eek:

The Home Office/ Met have recently carried out feasability studies into fast tracking suitable officers straight into firearms units. Why do you need a highly skilled very costly trained police officer to carry a weapon when you can recruit in a former serviceman train him to a suitable standard and he will fulfill the role...........

Alas in the Cops it is slightly different..basically close with the bad guys and try to catch them!should you shoot one! dont clean your rifle have it seized along with your warrant card and off home for a couple of years till it gets sorted out..... albeit your on full pay there is no overtime and limited contact with your colleagues... the officer ends up out of ticket on all his qualifications and is back at square one should he ever return to the police....
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Maybe these differences are why they don't currently recruit ex mil straight into the armed roles.
Armed forces (normally) work in war/conflict zones where the ROE are (usually) very clear and the aim is obvious. Armed police are dealing with the public, however deranged they may be, and the aim is surely to reduce the loss of life. Somewhat at odds with the military ethos.
Also how would somebody recruited straight into an armed unit learn the basics of policing and get comfortable out there dealing with the public? Isn't it the same as in the military where despite your specialism or trade you are still a soldier first and foremost, aren't armed police still a trained, experienced police officer with a trade?
 
MatthewB said:
Maybe these differences are why they don't currently recruit ex mil straight into the armed roles.
Armed forces (normally) work in war/conflict zones where the ROE are (usually) very clear and the aim is obvious. Armed police are dealing with the public, however deranged they may be, and the aim is surely to reduce the loss of life. Somewhat at odds with the military ethos.
Also how would somebody recruited straight into an armed unit learn the basics of policing and get comfortable out there dealing with the public? Isn't it the same as in the military where despite your specialism or trade you are still a soldier first and foremost, aren't armed police still a trained, experienced police officer with a trade?
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.....spot on.
 
Guys as stated ! I am playing devils advocate! dont shoot the messenger!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article569141.ece

I personally have no strong views on the subject. There were Soldiers I served with who I would not want in frontline policing and there were Policemen I served with whom I would not want in combat... Its horses for courses! But I can think of 1 UK force in particular with a firearms unit with a great tiltle that does nothing more than stag on. They do not need an expensive grounding in the finer arts of policing. The whole point of the study was to give officers a skill set to enable them to fulfill a task. An AFO does not need to be a level 4 Investigator, Chis handler Forensic specialist ex CID etc etc etc that was the point the home office are making.... and make no mistake its coming sure as night follows day! I give you the PCSO !! saw some recently with cuffs and batons(BTP). The Highways Traffic Officer with new powers to stop motorists. The civillan case workers with powers of arrest granted by the Chief Constable. So guys to quote DCI HUNT "There will never be a woman prime minister as long as i have a hole in my arse"
 
When you look this issue " Out of the box " so to speak, most European Country Police Officers are armed straight out of the Police Academy.
They don't have any major issues with this.
No need to go unarmed for several yrs and then make the transition to " Armed Police ".
Most Countries will see a weapon as a part of a Police Officers standard equipment, nothing more, nothing less.
 
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