!00% success rate guaranteed....What's wrong with this statement.

Rich H said:
Annie,

I was banging my head against the wall. The whole APL is a debacle and should be removed immediately. I told the course that this was not going to go away and that I would do all I could to change the situation.

SIA licensing - They turned what should have been magic into something that is a little tragic.


Rich H
Click to expand...

So what is to be done to bring about change.
Who is in a position to voice a protest loud enough that it will be heard, and notice payed, and finally action taken.
Is a form of self regulation called for.
Who among us, with help from all on here, who can jab that finger of accusation in to the chest of authority.
And say ENOUGH.

(Drum roll please.)

Why not The NSWU, as I see no one else stepping up to the plate right now.
You can steer and direct it's actions if you participate.
 
OJ,

These things take time. Be rest assured, I am wiggling my way into the den.


Rich H
 
Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Rich.
In the mean time,
lets see, with support and direction, what Rollo and the NSWU can do.
 
It must be the same here. When I was teaching first aid and Rescue it wasnt a good look to fail a student after paying all those fees.
I have failed two students. One in Rescue stright safety and the other a lady who was trying for a airhostess course.
She was more interested comming in to class late and talk about everything else but firstaid.
So I failed her.
My employer wasnt happy and the course that was running were complaing.
I stood my ground.
She had to redo the firstaid with a more softer instructor lol.
 
100% pass rate is impossible, simply impossible - legally


lets say you train 100,000 people and 1 person fails, thats not 100% and never will be. From my experience of training providers, most take their final pass rate as their pass rate. IE, if someone passes after 100 retakes then they still count towards the pass rate %.

Its just a way to suck people in and take advantage, anyone with half a brain cell will think that 100% is impossible without dodgyness
 
Pyrene why should someone be deemed suitable if they took 100 retakes of a test.
It doesn't show ability or aptitude.
The test is just that, to see if you meet the standard.
If you don't meet that standard you fail, you are not ready, capable and may never be so.
Taking into account how low the standard is, how poor the challenge is, it's no real test at all.
If we are to be taken seriously, and believe me you are fast heading towards the poor reps that is laid on SGs, you will have to address the issues of why we do not have the same strict rigour that is applied to the emergency services when applying for entry to this trade.
Security should be recognised as the fourth emergency service, not the bloody AA.
Professional standards.... by every sense of the title.
It's not a job that can be done by just anyone, despite what the SIA and the TPs say.
 
Incidentally OJ,

You may be surprised to know that the 'original Longmoor Group' before it was bought out by Westminster Group, boasted a 100% pass rate.



Rich H
 
Rich H said:
Incidentally OJ,

You may be surprised to know that the 'original Longmoor Group' before it was bought out by Westminster Group, boasted a 100% pass rate.

Rich H
Click to expand...

apt timing....what is longmoors status these days?

someone asked me about them just the other day.....

j.
 
Oddjob said:
Pyrene why should someone be deemed suitable if they took 100 retakes of a test.
It doesn't show ability or aptitude.
The test is just that, to see if you meet the standard.
If you don't meet that standard you fail, you are not ready, capable and may never be so.
Taking into account how low the standard is, how poor the challenge is, it's no real test at all.
If we are to be taken seriously, and believe me you are fast heading towards the poor reps that is laid on SGs, you will have to address the issues of why we do not have the same strict rigour that is applied to the emergency services when applying for entry to this trade.
Security should be recognised as the fourth emergency service, not the bloody AA.
Professional standards.... by every sense of the title.
It's not a job that can be done by just anyone, despite what the SIA and the TPs say.
Click to expand...



I personally believe that testing should be harder. If english is not your first language you should have ESOL. And finally only be allowed to re-sit the exam once.
 
Did Longmoor or the more 'reputable' companies have a pre selection process.
or did price exclude the 'wankers'. (does price do that ? maybe not !)
If you are in the police or the fire brigade or military for that matter you have to prove yourself, you have to gain experience before you progress. Well at least that's the theory, (or it was once upon a time)
You have to prove yourself in order to progress up the ladder, and join senior, more skilled units.
Yet you can be cleaning the streets one day, and be a CP the next day, looking after the safety, life, reputation and well being the next day of the great and good.
Where's the proof of your temper, where's the proof of your steadfastness, where's the proof of your bravery, where's the skills and experience.
A course is worth nothing,
proof is in history, proof is in time served, proof is in abilities proven.
Not some 100% guaranteed pass bought course.
 
OJ,

The SIA are to blame in its entirety. The TP's have their hands forced - to a certain extent.



Rich H
 
How about a 1 day pre-course module. Basic fitness/CFS/Problem solving/Attitude/Driving/People skills/Team work ability/Appearance/Spoken English and potential. Taken over a 16 hour period. With rest breaks etc. No real training, just an appraisal for suitability by the TP for the students attending.

In other words a form of pre-selection for the TP's to use as a guideline for their quality of student trained. The costs could be minimal and also saving costs for the students not deemed suitable. You would at least have a bare bones collection of suitable 'bums on seats' to start the course with.


After the pre course module. Students can be told the realities of their expectations in the industry. Whether they are really suitable and what areas they really need to work on to gain useful employment after 'Hopefully ' passing the SIA bare minimum standard.

But oops, I am being a realist here are'nt I! I mean in todays 'everyone's a winner' society we cannot upset the feckless,useless and downright dangerous for trying to pursue their dreams of personal immortality in their own minds eye of reaching the 'lofty heights' of being a...............Professional CPO, on their facebook pages.:rolleyes:


Just a thought.

max
 
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After the pre course module. Students can be told the realities of their expectations in the industry.....

Shouldn't it be beaten into them first ?
 
I concur on that one Vis.

Nothing like being thrashed by a mob, to make you switch on a bit more in future. ;)

max.
 
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Read with interest this thread;

Should the question not be, "Who is at fault for the 100% pass rate?"

The Alliance of Sector Skills Councils, the Joint Council for Qualifications and the Federation of Awarding Bodies have agreed additional requirements for assessing and quality assuring qualifications that use the title NVQ within the QCF. This includes the requirement for assessors and verifiers to hold or be working towards a suitable assessor or verifier qualification. Those holding assessor and verifier qualifications, including A, D and V units, will not need to undertake the new qualifications. The qualifications will continue to be considered as suitable. These assessors and verifiers should of course undertake continuing professional development to ensure they are working to the new standards.

Just a thought.

Seeker



 
I was speaking with a Training Provider last week, and he clearly stated that he had to provide a 100% pass rate or clients would go elsewhere and he would be out of business. As usual in this industry, its all about people making money as a guess!
 
operator144 said:
I was speaking with a Training Provider last week, and he clearly stated that he had to provide a 100% pass rate or clients would go elsewhere and he would be out of business. As usual in this industry, its all about people making money as a guess!
Click to expand...


but then saying 100% is dodgy. Either its falsified - and there for illegal, a coperate lie - and there for very naughty, or they refund money to people who don't pass - then to some extent they say that everyone who pays to go on their courses passes
 
Speaking as someone yet to do their CP course, I think that guaranteeing a 100% pass rate devalues a course and would probably steer me away from spending my money with that TP

An adage from my army days as I'm half way up some mountain somewhere ,in the middle of the night, piss wet through, carrying the equivalent of an obese child on my back and running on a couple of hours sleep comes to mind "If it was easy then everybody would be doing it"

Surely you don't want to be like everybody else, I know I personally would like to be known as that one who goes the extra mile and is different from any other tom, dick or harry with enough money to simply buy their licence.

That said...roll on April with Task!
 
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As an ATLS/PHTLS instructors and also examiner at medical school exams I'll certainly pass those that Can meet the requirements in written and practical exams. I dont mind flunking people who will be dangerous in the field.
As i be providing courses in the nearer future there will be a 25% non pass guarantee. Guaranteed
 
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