james113uk
New Member
i got a new driving lisence which is of a new design, the bouncers didnt know and tried to confiscate it because they thought it was a fake. just makes me wonder can bouncers confiscate your id?
can bouncers confiscate your id?
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- 000 1979 1st 2000 accept access account act action address advice advise advised age ago agreement alcohol answer answers anymore approach area arm arrive arse article asked attached attack attending aware back badge badged badly bank bar bars basis believed big biggest bit bloody board book booking bouncers boy brighton brilliant bring british busy buy call called cancelled car card cards case cat caution change charge charging charlie chav cheap check checks cheeky children choice citizen city civil civilian claim clear client closed club color comment commit community companies company complete con confirm confused cons constantly control controlled cop cops corner correct cost counter country couple court cover crazy crime criminal crown customer customers cut dam dare dark data data protection act date dates david day deal dealing demand description design designed details detection difficult document documents dom door door staff door supervisors doorman doormen doors doubt driving drunk due duties duty easy ejected element end english entry essex established eve evening exist explained external fact fair fake family feel felt figures files find fine firm follow force foreign form formation formed forums found fraud free front gain gel general give giving good government great greatly group groups guess guidance guys half hand handcuffs happen happy hat he/she heard heat held helping hey high highly hold home hours house i’m i’ve idea identity ids important incident individuals industry info inform information inte intention interest interested interview irish ish issue issued issues issuing job jus kids king knew knife knowing large las law laws learn left letter liability licence licenced licences license licensed licensing light lights likes local location log long los lost lot lots low made maintain major majority make makes making man management manager managers matter means meetings member members men mess mind minister mod money months national news nick night note notice number nut objective offence offences offer offered office officer officers older open operators opinion opinions order orders parents park part part time party pass passed passport passports past payment people peoples person personal personnel phone photo physical piece place point points police policing poor population port post power practice pre premises pretty priceless prison pro problems procedures product profession property prosecution protect protection protest provided provider providing public pulling purpose put question radio random read real reason reasonable recently record records recover red regular regulations remember reply report reported represent requires response return rights risk road rubbish ruling run safe safeguard sat school section security send service shit shop show shows sia side sign signed similar simon simple sisters size soldier solicitor sort sound sounds speak spec specific staff stand star start state statement states station stay stolen stop story stress stupid subject successful suggest summons sun supervisors support surely suspended sussex sweden sweet system teach team tech temp tent test theft thing things thought threat ticket til till time times told town trace trained true turning turns type units valid venue venues view virtual visa wait walk wanted warrant wearing websites weekend weekly weeks west west end whilst wing witness wks women won work worked working world worse worth write writing written wrong years young yrs
lincsdoorman
Full Registered User
If its fake, you wont get it back. It will be handed to local police. Believe it or not but its actually an offense under the identity act to attempt to use fake I.D and it will get you into serious trouble. The new style driving license has a steering wheel on the back of it, and it can be distinguished as being legit by placing it under uv lights.
OK, so can a door sup take the fake ID and hold it until the police arive or take it to the nearest cop shop as a good citizen?
Or
Can the door sup take the legit ID (unaware it is real) and do the above?
If in doubt, I was under the impression you refuse entry and send them on their way making a note of the name and details of the licence to be handed to the police if you so wish.
Or
Can the door sup take the legit ID (unaware it is real) and do the above?
If in doubt, I was under the impression you refuse entry and send them on their way making a note of the name and details of the licence to be handed to the police if you so wish.
lincsdoorman
Full Registered User
I take the fake I.D off them, i dont call the police as usually at some point in the evening they come past the club anyway or nip to the door to ask how busy you are which is when i pass the I.D across to them. I always tell customers who have their I.D confiscated that they can ask the police for it back if its genuine. At this point they usually scurry away as they know theyve been rumbled.... I took one off a lad last weekend, he wasnt too happy about it , then he said " that cost me a tenner bud so i want it back " lol. Priceless.....
If its genuine he will go and find the nearest police officer anyway and come back with him. Police welcome the confiscation of fake documentation as it keeps underage drinking figures down and usually saves them a lot of grief from some drunken chav at closing time.
If its genuine he will go and find the nearest police officer anyway and come back with him. Police welcome the confiscation of fake documentation as it keeps underage drinking figures down and usually saves them a lot of grief from some drunken chav at closing time.
I had a lad bring his passport one night, he was clearly underage, but the dates on the passport made him just 18...
However, it was issued to him when he was about 12, so the photo looked nothing like him, and could have been his brother for all we knew, so we knocked him back.
His response? Ill get my brother down, he'll tell you how old I am.
In theory, we should have confiscated the passport, because if it wasnt his then he had technically used a fake ID, but we were so busy with it being new years we just knocked him back and told him to 'go away'.
Oh, and hi all btw lol
Sy
However, it was issued to him when he was about 12, so the photo looked nothing like him, and could have been his brother for all we knew, so we knocked him back.
His response? Ill get my brother down, he'll tell you how old I am.
In theory, we should have confiscated the passport, because if it wasnt his then he had technically used a fake ID, but we were so busy with it being new years we just knocked him back and told him to 'go away'.
Oh, and hi all btw lol
Sy
It isn't theft, there needs to be an element of dishonesty for the offence of Theft to be complete. A doorman will say that they believed that the id was fake and that they were justified in removing it from you.
If it is fake then they will keep it and pass it to the Police.
I have been confiscating ID´s several times when I worked the doors ( Sweden)
here we say Public orderguards and they have police athourity and work after the Police laws I know this is diffrent from some other countrys.
If we suspected there was a fake ID either for payment with visa or to try to get in if youre not 18 we even held the persons! untill the arrival of the police since this is a offence..and a pretty good ticket aswell..
Its the same as signing a letter or bankpaper..fake signature/fake ID..
All was handled over to the police ofcourse..
Authorised public orderguards ( doormen) in Sweden is badged from the Police and only trained by the police.
They are also aload to do the same as a police officer (only on the location of their athourity)
They work with handcuffs and ASP baton
I know we are crazy us Swedes..
Hawk
here we say Public orderguards and they have police athourity and work after the Police laws I know this is diffrent from some other countrys.
If we suspected there was a fake ID either for payment with visa or to try to get in if youre not 18 we even held the persons! untill the arrival of the police since this is a offence..and a pretty good ticket aswell..
Its the same as signing a letter or bankpaper..fake signature/fake ID..
All was handled over to the police ofcourse..
Authorised public orderguards ( doormen) in Sweden is badged from the Police and only trained by the police.
They are also aload to do the same as a police officer (only on the location of their athourity)
They work with handcuffs and ASP baton
I know we are crazy us Swedes..
Hawk
I have been confiscating ID´s several times when I worked the doors ( Sweden)
here we say Public orderguards and they have police athourity and work after the Police laws I know this is diffrent from some other countrys.
If we suspected there was a fake ID either for payment with visa or to try to get in if youre not 18 we even held the persons! untill the arrival of the police since this is a offence..and a pretty good ticket aswell..
Its the same as signing a letter or bankpaper..fake signature/fake ID..
All was handled over to the police ofcourse..
Authorised public orderguards ( doormen) in Sweden is badged from the Police and only trained by the police.
They are also aload to do the same as a police officer (only on the location of their athourity)
They work with handcuffs and ASP baton
I know we are crazy us Swedes..
Hawk
here we say Public orderguards and they have police athourity and work after the Police laws I know this is diffrent from some other countrys.
If we suspected there was a fake ID either for payment with visa or to try to get in if youre not 18 we even held the persons! untill the arrival of the police since this is a offence..and a pretty good ticket aswell..
Its the same as signing a letter or bankpaper..fake signature/fake ID..
All was handled over to the police ofcourse..
Authorised public orderguards ( doormen) in Sweden is badged from the Police and only trained by the police.
They are also aload to do the same as a police officer (only on the location of their athourity)
They work with handcuffs and ASP baton
I know we are crazy us Swedes..
Hawk
Piece of an advice to all you guys - Just refuse them entry... simple! Don't go around try to play a hero or else, as no one would give a damn in the end anyway, it's just someone trying to be clever and trying to get in a club. The police goes and takes the ID away and send the boy back on the streets... and you wasted your precious time writing reports and giving police statements at the station.
hi all.
Just to confirm then. As a CP working on the doors part time. Are we legally allowed to confiscate fake i.d or someone using someone elses i.d?
I ask as i just found this topic and there was this issue over the external radio at another venue. Where control had asked if the DS had confiscated the i.d.
Just to confirm then. As a CP working on the doors part time. Are we legally allowed to confiscate fake i.d or someone using someone elses i.d?
I ask as i just found this topic and there was this issue over the external radio at another venue. Where control had asked if the DS had confiscated the i.d.
ID card
The question to be answered is, under what powers could you confiscate? So what powers do doormen have? How would you stand in front of the beak and defend your decision? I am not in the industry so cannot say.
For Police the ID Card Act 1996 would come into play. Even as such we must ascertain if the ID is forged/counterfeit? Is the person an imposter, is it stolen. To ascertain these offences, the person must admit liability,OR the officer dealing must be a trained NDFU forgery officer, a witness statement must be provided.
So personally I would say door supervisors cannot confiscate ID.
The question to be answered is, under what powers could you confiscate? So what powers do doormen have? How would you stand in front of the beak and defend your decision? I am not in the industry so cannot say.
For Police the ID Card Act 1996 would come into play. Even as such we must ascertain if the ID is forged/counterfeit? Is the person an imposter, is it stolen. To ascertain these offences, the person must admit liability,OR the officer dealing must be a trained NDFU forgery officer, a witness statement must be provided.
So personally I would say door supervisors cannot confiscate ID.
Hello,
Door Supervisors do not have any right to confiscate fake ID. We have no other rights other than that as any other civilian. (before anyone says about handcuffs, yes we can use them if we have been trained - but thats a different discussion, hehee!) The only difference is that we have a door supervisors badge to allow us to work because we have been trained in that profession. You can call for the police who can then confiscate it, but by time thye get there that perosn would have more than likely done a runner. Other than that all you can do legally is refuse entry of that person to the premises for not having the correct ID.
Hope this helps
Lil
Door Supervisors do not have any right to confiscate fake ID. We have no other rights other than that as any other civilian. (before anyone says about handcuffs, yes we can use them if we have been trained - but thats a different discussion, hehee!) The only difference is that we have a door supervisors badge to allow us to work because we have been trained in that profession. You can call for the police who can then confiscate it, but by time thye get there that perosn would have more than likely done a runner. Other than that all you can do legally is refuse entry of that person to the premises for not having the correct ID.
Hope this helps
Lil
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I think that you like the handcuffs for your personal use, don't you Lil? lol
On a serious note- its a great discussion your having guys, thanks!
I have confiscated what I believe to be fake or false ID on numerous occasions . theft is an act of dishonesty make sure you tell the person(s) that you are not happy with the ID and that yopu intend to give it to the police at your earliest oppurtunity or they can get the police themselves. and make sure you log it in your incident report. can be tricky though i had a girl using her sisters ID take a photo of my badge on her phone 3 weeks later i was suspended by the SIA thankfully the mess was sorted cos I had witnesses and records of the girls name in the incident book. and she was fined for using a passport dishonestly.
Hi joe109, and welcome to cp world, i agree with your post as when myself was on the doors, we also would take fake id or if it wasnt the person presenting it,we would tell the person it was being passed to the police,we would get the report book signed by the police officer, and they would take the id and also if the person was still their they would be detained,stay safe ram out.
Agree with this; whenever I have worked the doors we have always taken this approach; not so easy to tell with older passports pics etc; but I've confiscated fake MOD90 cards as well as a number of the fake rubbish sold out of the back pages of the likes of Maxim and FHM....
I personally dealt with a women who used a conterfeit passport at an interview for a job. The passport was kept for the police (not theft) and they arrived and nicked her. She was interviewed and could not really come up with an excuse after all the checks done, she was a foreign national. She was charged and got 9 mths prison at Crown Court for the passport offence only.
So in answer to the question about doorstaff retaining suspected fake ID's then yes they can, no police officer is going to disagree with someone doing this if it is for a lawfully purpose. It would be up to the doorstaff to justify why they did it. Very much the same as a bank retaining a fake bank card.
So in answer to the question about doorstaff retaining suspected fake ID's then yes they can, no police officer is going to disagree with someone doing this if it is for a lawfully purpose. It would be up to the doorstaff to justify why they did it. Very much the same as a bank retaining a fake bank card.
I think on issues such as this it would be a good idea to get a definitive answer from a prosecutor or procurator fiscal.
There still seems to be far too much fuzziness in what can or should be done.
I agree that morally we should withhold fake ID, especially MOD90s and other serious documents.
Don't ask the police for an answer as they don't have them. All you will get is an opinion.
Also bare in mind that we have to answer these issues for all of the jurisdiction in which we work. Irish, English, and Scots laws differ greatly.
I will attempt to get answers on this and many of the other issues we are looking for here and on other forums. Don't hold you breath waiting for them though as it can take sometime to get a reply.
We must all remember, and remind others, that we have NO powers outside of those as a citizen. If in doubt always cover your own ass first as no-one else will.
There still seems to be far too much fuzziness in what can or should be done.
I agree that morally we should withhold fake ID, especially MOD90s and other serious documents.
Don't ask the police for an answer as they don't have them. All you will get is an opinion.
Also bare in mind that we have to answer these issues for all of the jurisdiction in which we work. Irish, English, and Scots laws differ greatly.
I will attempt to get answers on this and many of the other issues we are looking for here and on other forums. Don't hold you breath waiting for them though as it can take sometime to get a reply.
We must all remember, and remind others, that we have NO powers outside of those as a citizen. If in doubt always cover your own ass first as no-one else will.