difference between tier 1 & 2 medics?

There are 2 tiers, however the way the industry is going I wouldn't be surprised if there were 102 by the end of the year.

Tier 1 are real healthcare professionals such as Docs, Paras, Nurses and Offshore Medics who because of the peculiarities of this learned forum, are also operators.

Tier 2 are FPOSi, MIRA, VIPER, STORM, St Ann's Jumbulance etc.

Complaints on a postcard please and addressed to:

CQC National Correspondence
Citygate
Gallowgate
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 4PA
 
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Ladies and Gents

Was under the impression that the definition of Tier 1 and Tier 2 medics is from the USA military, and has no bearing on what your medical qualification are in the UK (paramedic / odp / offshore medic etc etc etc ), but in relation to the fact the your special forces medically qualified (18D, pararescue etc etc ). Was not aware of the Tier system being in use in the UK - we have enough problems with the term MEDIC and PARAMEDIC being misinterpreted in the security industry, but from what starlight says - its sounds like the TIER system is now be in place.

Yet more BS and walters to deal with!!

Ah well ... back to "take me out" and the real world!!!

BZ
 
Aw fook. Sorry about that guys. Don't know my arrse'ole from my elbow sometimes.

Note to self: Read through before posting, lest you end up looking like a cock :o
 
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In the UK ..... who or which "professional body" is implementing this TIER system ???

Is this security industry led terminology ???? is there a point of reference or any documentation to support the UK levels ????

Unfortunately it is the administration and Human Resourse departments - that the confusion could to be worsened ..... The TIER SYSTEM is NOT an HPC / ODP / HSE Offshore Medic level - SO where did the UK Tier system come from and who is adding to the confusion ?

As previously stated but expanded upon -

The tier system refers to Special Operations Forces capabilities within the United States Armed Forces and can also be applied to special forces counterparts in other nations who may or may not have the same skill set/skill level, but who do occupy the same niche. Each tier denotes such aspects as the unit’s readiness, funding, chain of command, classification, ability, tasking and capabilities in counter-terrorism and direct action.

Tier One

Tier One are "Black" elements, which are national-level assets that comprise the highest level on the United States Special Operations Command spectrum and National Command Authority. The chain of command for these units bypasses traditional military bureaucracy, and they will be deployed directly by the President, Joint Chiefs, and/or Defense Secretary. These units include the US Army's secretive Delta Force and ISA; the US Navy's DEVGRU; and the US Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron.[1] These are the black-side of the Special Operations community, and fall under the Joint Special Operations Command's Special Mission Unit classification.

Tier Two

Tier Two can be referred to as "Gray" special operations units, which include US Army Special Forces (Green Berets), US Army Rangers, US Navy SEAL teams, US Navy SWCC teams, US Air Force Pararescue, US Air Force Combat Controllers, as well as MARSOC.

Special Operations Forces Tier System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the UK - 22 SAS and the SBS are sometimes termed 'Tier 1' special forces, due to fact they are the units usually tasked with direct action. The SRR, SFSG, 18 (UKSF) signals etc are 'Tier 2', as they fulfill a supporting role for the 2 Tier 1 units. 21 SAS, 23 SAS, SBS(R) and 63 (SAS) Signals are collectively termed UKSF(R) in some Ministry Of Defence (MoD) publications.

Be interesting to see where this goes and if there IS a UK reference to clarify yet more confusion !!

Cheers

BZ
 
Good spot bro.

I was wondering much the same myself. I've only recently become aware of the terms creaping into the recruiting/HR terminology, and was wondering which bright spark thought it would be a good idea to confuse things even more than they already are.

I came to the conclussion that it's nothing more than various companies trying to sex things up.

Trouble is of course, that people will buy into it, and it then becomes the norm.

Look in for TPs to now start running 'conversion' courses for health care pros.

Makes me wonder how many times someone will try and re-invent the wheel, and how much it's going to cost me.
 
Fair play gents, what happened to the good old fashioned Close Protection Operator or Team Leader with a decent first aid certificate - which is essentially what a Tier 1 Medic is. And then you have the team medic who is exactly that, a medic (Offshore or paramedic).

There are tier systems in various jobs, including SF, Engineering etc - not sure the origin of it in our industry but then again, what is our industry these days, a cross pollination of The Security, Medical and Oil & Gas industry.

I know Olive and G4S are using the tier system, perhaps it stems from Oil company policy / insurance? Having more 'medics' on paper / the ground could reduce over heads? I imagine it makes people feel fluffy knowing the amount of 'medics' they have on the ground (or rather thinking they have.

Back to your original question c81 - the answer is 'A lot'

Tier 1 = 5 day course

Tier 2 = Months / years of advanced training, ongoing CPD (£$), ECG interpretations, advanced airway management, drug protocols, insurance, professional body registration, demonstrable clinical practice........
 
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M4MED said:
Fair play gents, what happened to the good old fashioned Close Protection Operator or Team Leader with a decent first aid certificate - which is essentially what a Tier 1 Medic is. And then you have the team medic who is exactly that, a medic (Offshore or paramedic).

There are tier systems in various jobs, including SF, Engineering etc - not sure the origin of it in our industry but then again, what is our industry these days, a cross pollination of The Security, Medical and Oil & Gas industry.

I know Olive and G4S are using the tier system, perhaps it stems from Oil company policy / insurance? Having more 'medics' on paper / the ground could reduce over heads? I imagine it makes people feel fluffy knowing the amount of 'medics' they have on the ground (or rather thinking they have.

Back to your original question c81 - the answer is 'A lot'

Tier 1 = 5 day course

Tier 2 = Months / years of advanced training, ongoing CPD (£$), ECG interpretations, advanced airway management, drug protocols, insurance, professional body registration, demonstrable clinical practice........
Click to expand...

Great post. One of the things thats gripped my sh1t in the sandpit over the years is certain guys bigging up their medical credentials. I remember 1 throbber once bragged to me that he was a paramedic because he did the Ronin course.

M4MED said:
what happened to the good old fashioned Close Protection Operator or Team Leader with a decent first aid certificate
Click to expand...

Indeed.

M4MED said:
Tier 2 = Months / years of advanced training, ongoing CPD (£$), ECG interpretations, advanced airway management, drug protocols, insurance, professional body registration, demonstrable clinical practice........
Click to expand...
Thats the bit many fail to realise, or refuse to believe.
 
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The Tier system for medics is being thrown around more due to the Oil companies in Iraq and because of their Health & Safety rules. Shell state that within each callsign or team there must be at least one Tier 2 Medic (Offshore/Paramedic).

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of these companies still don't look past the tick in the box such as experience or if the paramedic has previous Primary Health Care (PHC) experience. Some paramedics are given a bag of PHC drugs and are expected to provide PHC which they are not trained or covered to do.
 
Tier systems are used in many jobs and I am sure it didn't come about because someone thought it was ally. If you want to distinguish between levels then the use of tier seems appropriate.
 
By the same token, the tier 2 medic is an integral part of the CP team, at times deputising for the TL - yet why is it that, primary health care aside, some companies are lowering standards to such an extent that they will deply medics who aren't even CP trained, stating 'they can do the CP course on their first rotation'

No CP quals, no CP experience, less command experience, yet expected to deputise for the TL when the shit hits the fan or even during routine operational planning and preparation, not withstanding being able to talk the industry talk infront of the client.

Nothing wrong with implementing a tier system. I have no dramas with it and makes sense from a H&S and insurance point of view - still think there is no change from a CPO with a first aid certificate to a tier 1 medic apart from a fancy name
 
Cheers for that. I have a good background with the medical aspect in the military.But as usual military qualifications dont really stand. Id say ill try to get on an off shore cse for 'The Qualification'.
 
Fair play, there are a lot of CMTs on here and many say their quals don't count or aren't recognised in civvy street. The Flip side is however, CMT is one of the few quals to give you passage onto the HSE Offshore Medic course and one of the few roles to potentially give you primary health care and tactical medical care experience.
I'm not a CMT myself but many of my instructors are Ex CMTs - worth their weight in gold
 
Gents, the O&G industry refers to it's different levels of medical expertise as tiers or levels. Which is why you are seeing so many requirements labeled as such. O&G is very much the growth industry right now, especially in Iraq.

However, they are not uniformal in their descriptions pertaining to each level.
For example, OGP 343 "Managing Health for Field Operations in Oil and Gas Activities" refers to levels 1 & 2 being first aider and advanced first aider, with level 3 being registered healthcare professional, level 4 being PHC Doctor or Nurse and Level 5 being role 2/3 Specialist Doctor. Exxon and Shell do it slightly differently. Horses for courses I suppose.

Refer to chapter 7 (pg 19) of the attached document for more info.

Hope that helps gents, good to hear from you all as always.
 
Thanks Invictus, this puts a different spin on things, referring to Paramedics and EMTs and Tier 3.

Appreciate the document - will get my head into it now.

Stay safe
 
No dramas mate, it is from the International Association of Oil and Gas Providers (OGP) and is just an example, some companies deviate from it slightly.

Nice TV coverage by the way - looks like fun :cool:
 
M4MED said:
Fair play, there are a lot of CMTs on here and many say their quals don't count or aren't recognised in civvy street. The Flip side is however, CMT is one of the few quals to give you passage onto the HSE Offshore Medic course and one of the few roles to potentially give you primary health care and tactical medical care experience.
I'm not a CMT myself but many of my instructors are Ex CMTs - worth their weight in gold
Click to expand...

Interesting post.

Now, what about those who've been military medics in other countries ? Or, more simply asked, what countries have their military medics recognized as a little bit more than tier 1 medics ?
 
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