What next after FAAW?

T

TacMedic1

Super Moderator
I, and probably most of the other medics on the forum, recieve quite a few PMs and emails asking "What next after FAAW?"

Firstly, I would suggest that FAAW is no longer acceptable once it becomes a 2 day course. I would prefer to see FPOS as the entry standard. I understand the issues with HSE regulations on first aid in the workplace but this pales into insignificance alongside the conciderations for our team members and protectees.

If you wish to progress beyond this in your medical training your choices appear to wide and every expanding.. However, this is an illusion. There are many, many training providers offering a bewildering array of courses taught by trainers with very impressive bio's... But how do you tell the good from the gash?

Take a look at awarding bodies, approvals, accreditation and oversight. If they are selling a course which comes under the banner of Royal College of Surgeons (Ed or Eng), Royal College of Physicians, Royal College of Anaesthatists, etc check them out with that body. The same goes for IHCD (Edexcel), BTEC, City & Guilds and the rest. Some approvals and accreditations are easy to get, others require higher standards. Be aware that there are some "approvals" which come from an individual sitting in a his back bedroom selling these indulgences.

I am not saying that courses without any of the above are worthless. There are few courses out there which are run by professional medics, at or below cost price, with the intent of sharing their skills and knowledge with others to ensure that we all get the best care in the shortest time. The flip side of this is that there are a load of walts and wannabees selling courses which are either worthless or totally inappropriate for the students. I have seen courses where hands on pratcical skills are taught by demonstartion only with no access to dummies, meat packs, or real human patients. Again sorting the good from the gash can be difficult.

Until we, as medics within the industry, develop a consensus on standards, protocols, accountability, and registration it may be a bit hit & miss finding the right course, let alone the right course for you.

My advice would be a progression from basic medical skills, through operational skills and some advanced techniques, to primary health care:

1. An approved EMT course taught by either an NHS Trust or University e.g: Clinical Skills & Competency Centre - Emergency Medical Technician Course
2. The OEMS courses with Deployment Medicine: OEMS
3. PHTLS from one of the RCS Eng approved centres e.g: Team SASHA Home Page
4. AMLS from an approved centre e.g: HICESC - University of Hertfordshire
5.The offshore medic course with a reputable centre e.g: Clinical Skills & Competency Centre - Offshore Medics Course

This isn't supposed to be a "do it this way" list but an example of the sort of courses and quality you should be looking for. They are , however, in the right order of progression.

If you are unsure about a course or training provider ask here on the forum, check thier reviews elsewhere, google/yahoo them for negative press and feedback, or find out about their ability / rights to sell & deliver the training.

The most important thing to remember before and after any course, and while you are working, no course certifcate is a license to practice it is just evidence that you have attended and completed a course within the requirements and standards set out.

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Good isn't good enough in medicine..
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A very good post that is impartial and informative. Can I also add that some of the American qualifications such as EMT-B are very credible and will be looked upon favourably by some of the American companies. Many I have spoken with require US quals and are unwilling to look at my UK paramedic registration so a US EMT-B might help as a foundation.
 
The US is a great place to train. Unfortunately there is a skewed perception of the training due to TV & film which makes it appear quick, simple, and poor quality - far from it.

The standards are high, the courses intense, and the examinations beyond tough.

Unlike the UK, non-NHS, courses there is hands-on time in the Emergency Department and on Ambulances dealing with real patients. There is a requirement for the appropriate driving licenses and both criminal background checks and drug screening, all of which are sadly lacking here.

For those who complete the training successfully and pass the course exams there is the National Registry Examinations. I have seen grown men so stressed out that they are seconds from crying when preparing for these exams. It doesn't end there as there is continuos CPD, and new thhings to learn. If you start as a First Responder or EMT-B there is that golden light to reach for at the EMT-P level.

Once they are trained and registered the real hard work begins. Long hours, poor pay, stressful work and untold stories combine to make it the career with the fastest and highest burn-out rate.

All these things combined are why EMTs in the US a proud to be medics and are universally respected. This is what I am trying to develop here in the UK for non-NHS EMTs and medics.

I would advise anyone who wants to be a professional medic to either get a job with an ambulance trust, join the military, or failing those and you can afford it - get over to the US.

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Being a medic is a life long commitment, your life and thiers!
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I have always been an advocate of US training for those who can't get NHS training. I think it is better than the unregulated non NHS courses over here for the pure reason that it is regulated, it is a common standard and will be recognised and welcomed by the US companies operating in hostile environments.

I think the US EMT-B whilst being a much lower standard than UK amb tech, is exactly the right balance for CP operators and anyone else who wants a level of training beyond FAW.

Failing that, the FPOS-I course is also a very good course and when delivered by the right people with the right experience (which unfortunately isn't me) will suit the CPO down to the ground. Following FAW (for basic, core knowledge) and FPOS-I, there is no reason why an add on day couldn't be included to cover core remote medic skills.

As a paramedic I have a major problem with "EMTs" in the UK trying to practise advanced skills such as IV access and advanced airway management. I have absolutely no problem with people working in remote environments being taught the basic knowledge to use these skills when the $hit hits the fan and they are on their own. The two environments are worlds apart and I will be the first to admit that I have no CP experience yet although I have worked for the military as a civilian contractor and have seen and worked with army and RN medics.

Whether people care about my opinion is up to them but many paramedics share it and the problem is the sheer lack of regulation allows walter mitty characters to swan around in their DLA/JSA bought ambulance putting the public at risk.

My only concern about the CP environment is the door supervisor who has done a ten day CP course and four day 'medic' course. It is obvious that my earlier assumptions about people wanting medical training were incorrect and I apologise for this. It is clear that many are just looking to do the right thing and look after their buddies.

Please excuse my earlier posts, but I have been exposed to far too many walts in my career and it pollutes the mind.

Peace and love.
 
Training question?

Been a medic in states for awhile, anyone know of any yanks taking
Ronin courses? Regs here are improving-so is training. Canada medics
give me alot of grief over pay and training buts its improving. Going to move to Florida and continue CPO courses in states. Regards.

In 2013 regs in Michigan state only acredited schools can teach paramedic
so far only two are qualified. So training is getting better. Thanks.
 
Well it covers the core competencies of the IHCD Tech course but obviously in a much shorter form.

I would suggest this course for anyone looking to enhance their skills because it carries the credibility of being issued by an NHS ambulance service and it doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. If I was in the position of some of the posters on here I would be seriously considering where my money should be spent. What is the point of doing a course that has no credibility? No course will make you an EMT as has already been said but courses like this will teach you additional skills whilst being a credible certification.

I have only heard good things about this course and it's certainly a step in the right direction. If I remember correctly it's only about £500 or so as well.
 
Info from the U.S. Provider: EMT-B isn't a sufficient certification for any type of actual Medic job despite what a recruiter says. Now if you're a qualified ALS provider in another country and getting your "B" (as we call it) is what you have to do to be marketable w/ U.S. companies then so be it. EMT- B stands for Basic Life Support- no IVs or fluids or advanced airways or Meds etc... Just basic patch & splint & backboard & BVM. I have heard some grumblings about U.S. "Medics" and this may be part of the reason, ex military guy goes to community college for one semester (110hrs classroom & 10hrs clinical are the requirements for EMT- B) and then puts himself up as a "Medic". I'm not sure how the EMS levels rank in other countries but a good way to evaluate curriculums is NREMT.ORG (National Registry of EMTs- U.S. general guidelines).
Also there may be a way to "challenge" the U.S. NREMT system w/ you country's certifications where you could take just a written and practical exam or take a brief "refresher" course instead of having to go through an entire course here. You would have to check w/ the NREMT.
 
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MacMcQueen said:
agreed remote medical in the US do a very good EMT B Widerness medics course 30 days residential for about 4000 US
Click to expand...

Ah, yes... SOLO Schools (Google "SOLO WEMT") excellent program, that's where I got my WEMT. The above stated cost is accurate and (at SOLO) includes room/ board on facility grounds, meals are breakfast/ lunch by a real chef who graduated from Johnson & Wales, and the first 3 weeks is the EMT- Basic course (NREMT-B) the fourth week is the Wilderness EMT module. You can then sit for your NREMT- B test and have U.S. credentials as well. Now if you hold an EMT-B card you can take the upgrade Wilderness module where you go to same place for a week and take just the module for about $750 USD. As far as foreign EMS credentials go I would contact the school to see if it's necessary to have U.S. credentials- they may not require it for the upgrade if you have a UK EMT card for example as the WEMT certification says on it "Not Valid Without a State EMT card". So considering you're a foreign national w/ appropriate EMS credentials in your home they may just let you do the one week module.
Also, they now offer AWEMT, Advanced WEMT for ALS providers... Also if you get a group of people together (8 or 12 or so) you can contact them and get them to tailor a course to your specific needs such as WEMT w/ focus on trauma, international medicine/ expedition medicine, etc... and also exotic diseases, just about whatever your liking or desire is. The Dr. (Dr. Hubbell) who owns the school was actually one of the U.S. first Paramedics and then got an MD on exotic diseases and has done mission/ expedition work. He also claims to have done private contracted classes for SEAL teams etc... They offer a whole bunch of stuff there. Also their instructors do travel, don't know about internationally, but typical is the host has to arrange lodging and transport.
Hope this helps!
 
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Hi lads,
I am a total newby aside from FAAW-FPOS Course so Im interested in further developement in medic training. this is all very interesting but in some instances confusing. If i want to be a Paramedic then I believe i have to get training with a good training provider!

A. Who are the best beginner to advanced level training providers for potential medics?
B. What, ultimately would one be qualified as and who recognises the quals?
C. How long in total would it take to become an advanced Paramedic?

D. On a related but slightly different tangent, What about the MIRA course by Ex-med or similar are they a good place to start after your FAAW-FPOS courses?

Lets get some top recommendations up, you dont have to say who is bad just who is good and worth training with.

I'ld be grateful and i think a lot of guys would.

Cheers
 
medic82942003 said:
Been a medic in states for awhile, anyone know of any yanks taking
Ronin courses? Regs here are improving-so is training. Canada medics
give me alot of grief over pay and training buts its improving. Going to move to Florida and continue CPO courses in states. Regards.

In 2013 regs in Michigan state only acredited schools can teach paramedic
so far only two are qualified. So training is getting better. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at taking a CP course from Ronin next yr, I budget the cost @ 10K so I have to save. From what I can see they're a credible course and the feel from the posts I read they seem to be reputable. If nothing else it will be fun!
 
SOCRATIS said:
Hi lads,
I am a total newby aside from FAAW-FPOS Course so Im interested in further developement in medic training. this is all very interesting but in some instances confusing. If i want to be a Paramedic then I believe i have to get training with a good training provider!

A. Who are the best beginner to advanced level training providers for potential medics?
B. What, ultimately would one be qualified as and who recognises the quals?
C. How long in total would it take to become an advanced Paramedic?

D. On a related but slightly different tangent, What about the MIRA course by Ex-med or similar are they a good place to start after your FAAW-FPOS courses?

Lets get some top recommendations up, you dont have to say who is bad just who is good and worth training with.

I'ld be grateful and i think a lot of guys would.

Cheers
Click to expand...

As TacMedic said the U.S. does have good training criteria, etc... But don't forget no matter how high your level of training is, it really is experience that makes the Provider... but of course you need to get trained first and proper training is important... So if you can make it stateside there are a few different venues... I went to community college to get my EMT- Basic, got half of my ALS training for free through volunteering as an EMT (the county provides the training at their training center), and then got hired as a Medic and finished up my training w/ my employer paying for it. So over here you can be trained for free as a volunteer but it takes about 3yrs, you can go to a college and get a degree and the certification- about 2yrs, or you can go through an EMS training agency, pay some bucks, and get trained to ALS (EMT- I) in one yr- but you would have to be able to go to class 40hrs/ week. In the event that you can't make it here but do have some cash, I saw a remote Medic course through or associated w/ Ronin out of SA that appeared to have good curriculum.
But regardless of how or where you do it after training and certification you have to get yourself into a position where you will see a lot of patients to practice your skills, assessments, etc... As one instructor I had put it: The book and you're protocols are all black & white but your patients are all grey (as in neither black or white, not easy reads). So if you can get the basic courses down and get employed somewhere in a hot zone hang around the Med tent, center, whatever they have as a casualty collection point, and learn & ask questions...
I would have to say that a more universal certifying agency would be the U.S. NREMT (National Registry of EMT's, NREMT.ORG) if for no other reason than contracts seem to flow a lot through U.S. hands.
That would be my best advice.
 
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SOCRATIS said:
Hi lads,
I am a total newby aside from FAAW-FPOS Course so Im interested in further developement in medic training. this is all very interesting but in some instances confusing. If i want to be a Paramedic then I believe i have to get training with a good training provider!

A. Who are the best beginner to advanced level training providers for potential medics?
B. What, ultimately would one be qualified as and who recognises the quals?
Click to expand...
Have a look through this thread - Genuine or Diploma Mill?

C. How long in total would it take to become an advanced Paramedic?
Click to expand...
Currently in the UK it will take a 2 or 3 year diploma or degree, several years on the road, and several upgrade courses to get to that stage - totalling about 5 or 6 years minimum, about the same as a medical degree:eek:.

D. On a related but slightly different tangent, What about the MIRA course by Ex-med or similar are they a good place to start after your FAAW-FPOS courses?
Click to expand...
MIRA is a good step after FAAW & FPOS-I.

As I wrote in the top post
This isn't supposed to be a "do it this way" list but an example of the sort of courses and quality you should be looking for. They are , however, in the right order of progression.

If you are unsure about a course or training provider ask here on the forum, check thier reviews elsewhere, google/yahoo them for negative press and feedback, or find out about their ability / rights to sell & deliver the training.

The most important thing to remember before and after any course, and while you are working, no course certifcate is a license to practice it is just evidence that you have attended and completed a course within the requirements and standards set out.
Click to expand...
 
Perhaps people should be thinking more towards the IPAT Course (120hours- 60 pre course study and 5 x 12 hour days at a training centre) as opose to FPOS
 
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