Fair Weather staff.

S

selous

Longterm Registered User
Just a rant.....

During this years concert season I have had several DS walk off site due to bad weather. Always with some excuse or other, the cats died, wife not well, sink blocked, etc. I know some have genuine reasons but the rest.....

Oer twenty plus major concerts this year I have had 5 staff walk of site with no real reason other than it was cold and raining. Get with the program. Thats what it does at concerts. It rains and sometimes it's cold. If you cant do the task stop at home. No one that does this with my company will ever work for me again. Full Stop. So don't text me after and tell me how much you would like to do more work for us. you wont be!

Right. Off to creamfield to cover such a shift personally, why personally? because I care and I loath letting a customer down.

If you turn up to do a gig...do the gig like the rest of the crew and you'll be respected for it.

Rant over

Selous
 
I think the shiet music at crapfield might have me walk off!! And I only work in the sun and I need to cut about in my budgie smugglers to get a tan cause Im awesome :rolleyes:;);)
 
Ye what experience did they have, how many were newbies.
It would be interesting to break this down a little.
 
selous,

out of curiousity what provision if any do you and your company make for wet weather gigs? the reason i ask is i have worked with some great guys who get dishearted in the cold and wet, however i found by firstly paying good rates i got good lads and also by investing heavily in the wet weather gear the boys and girls i deploy trend to sweat rather than get rain soaked.

i also get some guys who have all their own gear including a spare one of everything.
but i dont ask them to work for £8.00/ hr on a self employed basis !

oj touched on it earlier, pay peanuts (self employed at that) and get monkeys that dont work in the rain.

regards

premier
 
Oddjob said:
Ye what experience did they have, how many were newbies.
It would be interesting to break this down a little.
Click to expand...

Two that had done a couple of years of concerts. Three newbies. But none of them had worked for us before. Most of my staff have worked concerts for me for years. Some of whom did their first concert with us and have become asets.

May do a pre concert training program at the local cold storage facility after a driving through a car wash in an open top car.
 
One thing of importance is what provision you as a company make for inclement weather. As an employer, you have to provide wet weather clothing and ensure adequate rest breaks during inclement weather. although you say they are working on a self employed basis, technically they are not as they are not free to attend and leave when they like, are not free to wear whatever clothes they like, and so are classed as employed.

If you employ people in wet and cold conditions, you must adequetly provide for them. Remember, its just a job to them, like any other job, and if an employer expects employees to stay out in the rtain and cold then unless they are equipped well, and given breaks and warm drinks then they do tend to vote with their feet.
 
I know nothing of this industry and am not sure if some of you have a gripe with sealous.

As long as the job is as it is advertised and the pay is what was offered and accepted then what is the problem with expecting them to complete it.

I am a self employed sailing Instructor. I accept a job and the pay offered knowing exactly what I am going into. I do not expect the guy paying the wages to send out a lifeboat if, in the middle of summer, it starts to rain, gets a bit chilly or the sea gets a tad rough. He expects me to have the correct gear and know how to make a hot cup of tea.

Being self employed does give you the same rights as a fully paid up employee.
 
Don't expect anything to be provided, provide it yourself and you won't be let down.

Worked many events where drowned rat was dryer than me, however that is par for the type of work.

Worked one event where was up to knees in mud, overnight 14 hrs with no breaks, had brought my own stuff so was fine. Those who relied on the company to provide, were a bit chilly, wet and hungry.

Man up you bunch on wimps
 
Pay a decent wage and get a decent grade of guy/gal.
You are entitled to all the expectations you want then.
IF you paid for an all singing and all dancing Events DS,
he'd of course come prepared.
But I refer to my origional statement.
Pay is commensurate with quality.
 
Bad Weather is manageable with adequate information to staff, ie kit lists and briefings before hand etc. If the expectation is with the staff member to provide anything, it should be given to them in writing prior to the event, and then reminded. Preferably by email, where details can be embellished upon.

A lot of these guys are stated as new and therefore may not necessarily know what to expect or require and maybe even just assume things will be provided...sometimes travelling up on the companies minibusess etc means you have to pack light and therefore cant bring everything you require.

I know of some experienced guys this weekend despite my warnings to bring a tent.. turned up to Reading, only to be told that there were no beds for them, therefore they have had to sleep in their cars during the day...they have took it on the chin and cracked on..although I doubt they will do the festival again.

The Event scene for some is sometimes the first time they have been self employed so do not know what expectations are left upon them...to a degree they want nurturing like children and given all the information and then some to know 100% whats going on.
This sometimes falls back on the TL of which needs to be able to hack the demands and be proactive in making sure everyone's up to scratch rather then just having the numbers there.

All to often in this industry there's the fly on the wall text sent out with dates, times and uniform requirements given, and yes to the experienced guy this is fine, after learning the tricks of the trade (possibly learnt from experience or colleagues).

The security companies are very happy to take all your personal information and ID requirements, get you signed up and cleared to go, however not many will provide you with adequate information and briefs of which could quite easily be a general to do list sent via email to all staff.

I can appreciate that some events that pop up are unknown territory for the security companies or they have had the work passed down to them as subs, however it does not take away the fact it is their responsibility also to make sure the staff are prepared.

If the staff turn up unprepared then I agree full bollockings should be given for the bad admin skills.
I know that I would give them a royal one, but then I would also have back up items on reserve to give them in the case that even the event organisers or the parent Sec company should be providing.
Some events are absolutely shocking when it comes down to even some of the little essentials, water running out etc after day 1.

Many of us start in the event area to get experience and sometimes that means accepting not brilliant pay, however some work is better then none, but the ones that do the job well for the crap pay shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush, its just a case they haven't met the right people yet.

I worked the event season last year, and the heat of Glastonbury was something unbearable! Rain is not problem but heat is a killer, fortunetly we had a great TL who made sure we all had sun cream, water, appropriate clothing, food and long siestas stagging on rotation due to the night before being a bit of a heavy one and he couldn't of done a better job briefing us for any eventuality we needed to know even though we didn't know what we were doing untill we got there, we all felt confident in that we were prepared.
If more time was invested in the security staff by their companies the staff will reward with loyalty and putting up with pretty much anything that's thrown at them for not wanting to let down their TL. I know I have had to put up with all manner of shit because I didn't want to let me TL down no matter how much it seemed sense to walk out on the job, you keep your head down and crack on.. animosity can breed within the ranks..Ive seen guys from different firms working alongside us being paid more walk out on jobs because they felt let down by their company. Its easy to have the F*ck them attitude and send them on the first train packing, but that's not proactive at all. I'm not saying that there isn't staff who really shouldn't be there in the first place and quite obviously should be told to go do one.

Seleous this is not a personal jibe at your company having not worked for you before, but I think I may have worked alongside you recently at a Kent based event, and IIRC I know we all looked after each other with breaks etc., you do have some good guys and I hope the team are well :)
 
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As long as people are briefed as to what is expected of them (and you should not need to point out that it might rain, it might get muddy, might get very hot or very cold) then they should either decline the job or stick with it. You should not walk off site after agreeing to work and leave your colleagues in the lurch. If you realise that you're too soft for the job then don't do it again, but don't quit once you have agreed to work. Positions need to be covered, leaving means that colleagues may have to do overtime (such as 24 hour shift) or positions may be understaffed putting people at risk.

The organisers for the event will only allow for a certain pay rate and a certain number of positions. There's often no spare people to cover breaks, if you try to pay the rate you'd like you just won't get the contract. There are companies paying as little as £7.50 an hour and they will take work off those paying better. Sometimes if you do pay higher and get a better quality of staff you can't get them to do the necessary jobs as they think its beneath them to stand on a delivery gate or some other position away from the action.

I'm not ex-mil, and I'm not young either but I still manage to do a 12 hour night shift in constant rain with no break. Get some decent clothing of your own, take enough food and water to last the 12 hours and just get on with it. It really isn't that challenging to put up with a bit of discomfort to earn a living. People are just too soft these days.
 
Sorry I have not got back on this post until now...

There are some very pertinent points posted on here, including some I have taken on board for future ref.

The MO at the moment is that we advertise only if our own staffing base is over-run. Everyone is given the full SP on what will be expected of them andwhat to bring (also what we have available if they don't have any items of kit). No one is press-ganged into the job. Before the off everyone gets a text message for conformation, both to make sure they are still onboard and to checkif they have any last minute requirements. On accepting the job they are emailed a spec/check list.

On pay. This will vary. If they are working directly for Selous Security Ltdthen the pay will usually be £9 to £11.50ph. If the job is subcontract then therates will be less. We state the rate when we advertise. If people don't want to work for those rates then it is up to them not to apply for the job.

We do take newbies onboard and mentor them as such. We take them for several reasons:

1/ Everyone deserves a break into the industry if they are keen, able and really want it.

2/ Most stay with us as they enjoy working for us, in return we will expand their skills base and take them under our wing.

3/ It gives us a chance to mould them into good staff that give a damn about the job their doing and the head held high feeling they get when told what agreat job they have done, by us and the event organisers.

Sure the hours can be long and the weather bad, but that’s just the way itis. They will be monitored for low moral and hypothermia and given warm drinks and breaks where possible. They were told what to expect and in return I pay them on time and if they don't like the job, then the least they can do is manup and finish what they started. I have had a couple of DS that have done just that and stated they would prefer other roles in the industry. One still works for us and both, despite hating the job they did, finished the task in hand. For this I gave them kudos as they completed their task.

I don't expect anyone to do anything I have not done myself. When I started out I worked for low pay and build up my reputation. I have had guys walk off task that have been on £11ph and the weather has been good because they missed the girlfriend. Those are the ones that are sending me into a rant.

The bottom line is that I have over 100 regular staff that do a blinding job no matter what the weather etc and I thank each and every one of them for their dedication to my company. Including all those that just did three events in arow, Leeds/Reading/Strawberry fields or Creamfields (a bloody mud bath),Greenfields and just back from Befestival on the Isle of Wight. You did me proud lads and lasses.

And to all you forum members that gave your two-penny-worth...thank you for your input. I believe no one is too good to learn and your opinions are truly appreciated.Thank you.

Selous
 
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