SIA to be axed

[tucker1644]

SIA banned

Martin I done my course in 2005 & got my SIA. Guess it was a waste of time. Lucky the Army paid for it.

Well guess your right cos your already on the job I am just starting but to put another way I myself would not feel good taking my training from Joe Bloggs training for 15 days training for £50 and still be taken seriously Would you

 

[sparkieni]

Not sure bit isn't the axeing currently only been talked about for DS & SG's and not the gents and ladies of the CP profession. Could be wrong so don't quote me on it

Sparkie

 

[sparkieni]

What you will more and likely see. Is the top companies putting out their own CP course and you will have pay for that course to work for that company. How many top companies are there in the UK? 5. That is 5 * £3400. A lot of money.

Ps if any of the companies have not though of this. I have the credit LOL!

Don't ********already do that???

 

[Bubba]

Yes, there are many comapnies that state you have to have been trained by them - that way they can guarantee that you work to the same drills as they require.

There are also some less than scrupulous companies who say "you have to train with us in order to get a job with us, even though you are qualified, and our training will cost x amount but we can take it out your wages if ya want"

Bubba

 

[sgrant1]

What a nightmare

This will if it ever happens will be a nighmare, yes they are a pain for us operators and paying 245.00 every three yrs is naff, but behind the scenes they are protecting one and all.. Companies and good CPO'S alike. They insure that only good operators get licences, they take away companies licences who are operating outside their remit and putting all of us in jeopardy. As for the Police taking on this role, they too have a huge problem with budget constraints, if this happens it could be back to waiting for 1-2yrs for renewal or issue. The security industry needs to be regulated to help us all

 

[Carl Dowd]

This will if it ever happens will be a nighmare, yes they are a pain for us operators and paying 245.00 every three yrs is naff, but behind the scenes they are protecting one and all.. Companies and good CPO'S alike. They insure that only good operators get licences, they take away companies licences who are operating outside their remit and putting all of us in jeopardy. As for the Police taking on this role, they too have a huge problem with budget constraints, if this happens it could be back to waiting for 1-2yrs for renewal or issue. The security industry needs to be regulated to help us all

I respect you views my friend but neither Companies or Firms are Licensed and neither should they be..! Approved Contract Status is an expensive voluntary process and if kept will proceed in the commercial community on the same lines as BS5750, BS5750 Pt2, ISO 9001 and ISO 9002... My point?... all these so called 'initiatives' become worthless in time... Bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake...

PS If I may..? as a small firm owner [micro business] I neither need the SIA, the management of the SIA, or their political masters [gravy train politicians] looking after my business interests. I didn't ask for it, I don't want it and I look forward to its demise...

Nothing personal sgrant1, just the way that it is..!

 

[sgrant1]

I am aware of that but the people they employ are and so they have to conform as a company to the basic SIA practices....as for the information security No and British Standard authorities I don't think they are relevant in this debate

 

[David Platts]

This will if it ever happens will be a nighmare, yes they are a pain for us operators and paying 245.00 every three yrs is naff, but behind the scenes they are protecting one and all.. Companies and good CPO'S alike. They insure that only good operators get licences, they take away companies licences who are operating outside their remit and putting all of us in jeopardy. As for the Police taking on this role, they too have a huge problem with budget constraints, if this happens it could be back to waiting for 1-2yrs for renewal or issue. The security industry needs to be regulated to help us all

Only good operators!!!! what do you mean mate i have worked with pleanty of idiots who have an sia badge and as Carl has said there are plenty of regulations in place that keep an eye on the security indistry and if people have any commen sence they would only work for companies that worked inside those regulations i think its just an unessary Labour Tax!!!

 

[Carl Dowd]

Only good operators!!!! what do you mean mate i have worked with pleanty of idiots who have an sia badge and as Carl has said there are plenty of regulations in place that keep an eye on the security indistry and if people have any commen sence they would only work for companies that worked inside those regulations i think its just an unessary Labour Tax!!!

David, absolutely mate... I could reel off the politics of all this and I am sure many on here could also... and do you know mate? honestly I do not remember meeting very many idiots in protective security pre 2001... there were problems yes, I admit and recognise that, but those problems had been identified and with some thought and the right initiatives they could and should have been resolved... to a satisfactory conclusion.

 

[aj11]

Gents, and by that I think I'm aiming this at you more experienced guys,

MY OPINION is that the concerns some are raising about the demise of the SIA stem from the fact that 'Its all we know'.
I've not been long in the industry and so when I hear that its regulatory body is getting the chop..SOUNDS a bit shocking.
To us that knew little of the industry pre / early SIA, we have nothing to compare it too hense I can understand uncertainty and the attitude of 'what are we gonna do now'
I may be far from the mark but I believe people are just apprehensive because they see the SIA as the 'government' when actually they dont really give much to the business side of life.
As one guy said....the post office can check forms! Lets see some quality courses being run by guys with experience who know how to work without the SIA stipulating the abount of minutes I should spend learning RTC proceedures verbatum.

 

[sgrant1]

I respect you views my friend but neither Companies or Firms are Licensed and neither should they be..! Approved Contract Status is an expensive voluntary process and if kept will proceed in the commercial community on the same lines as BS5750, BS5750 Pt2, ISO 9001 and ISO 9002... My point?... all these so called 'initiatives' become worthless in time... Bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake...

PS If I may..? as a small firm owner [micro business] I neither need the SIA, the management of the SIA, or their political masters [gravy train politicians] looking after my business interests. I didn't ask for it, I don't want it and I look forward to its demise...

Nothing personal sgrant1, just the way that it is..!

No offence taken, But us CPO'S need this and as a small business owner I would have thought you would understand...Do you really want to take on people who haven't been vetted put them out to your precious customers and have a nightmare when it goes horribly wrong??? Maybe you know all of your operators at this moment in time but there will come a time when you have to look elsewhere to fulfill that contract.... I love this debate

 

[sgrant1]

Idiots are not the one's you should be worrying about...Life is full of idiots not matter where you go or work, life experience shows you how to deal with them..It's the law breakers and under cutters that are a concern...

 

[aj11]

no offence taken, but us cpo's need this and as a small business owner i would have thought you would understand...do you really want to take on people who haven't been vetted put them out to your precious customers and have a nightmare when it goes horribly wrong??? Maybe you know all of your operators at this moment in time but there will come a time when you have to look elsewhere to fulfill that contract.... I love this debate :d

he will sub-contract from me......youngblood! :d:d:d

 

[PaulSmith]

End of the day the industry needs regulating in some way, so theres 2 options - state regulation or self regulation.

If I thought that self regulation would work I'd be all for it. The top companys may well self regulate, however I don't think for one minute that this self-regulation will extend all the way down to your local security companys.

Which leaves us with state regulation i.e the SIA. I do though think that the whole organisation needs a re-think, but I think its a necessary evil. Lots os other industrys have authorities, its just that they are not so clueless!

 

[rupert]

End of the day the industry needs regulating in some way, so theres 2 options - state regulation or self regulation.

If I thought that self regulation would work I'd be all for it. The top companys may well self regulate, however I don't think for one minute that this self-regulation will extend all the way down to your local security companys.

Which leaves us with state regulation i.e the SIA. I do though think that the whole organisation needs a re-think, but I think its a necessary evil. Lots os other industrys have authorities, its just that they are not so clueless!

I have to agree.

Who would regulate the industry from the inside? A "professional" body?! Yeh right.

We are not "professional" yet despite the vain developments from inside such bodies.

Would we ignore the BSIA in favour of the SyI? Or ASIS in favour of the IPSA? Or the IRM in favour of the ISMA? Or even the ASC in favour of the IAPSC?????

Self regulation in such a broad industry, where cock swinging rules, will never work.

For far too long have people in the wider security industry passed themselves off as experts; we are dissjointed and regulation (from the outside) would be a good thig; it must however be done correctly and the SIA as it stands is not it...

 

[Oddjob]

The 'SIA' are a bit like 'mobile phones' to us old 'uns.
How did we ever cope without them ?
Truth is we done just fine back then,
sure didn't have those big bills, and didn't have to listen to drivel all the time.
The comparisons are uncanny.

 

[Scab]

If the SIA goes, standards will drop.

Bear in mind the hideous standards in place now which cost companies a pretty penny. If they don't NEED that stuff, they will put their own half arsed efforts in place.

Locally governed? Great. Blokes who work all over the place will need a bergen to support the weight of all the licenses they'd need. How would CP be regulated locally?

And also, watch DS and SG across the land cry out when they realise they have to pay for many licenses to work around a bit; as a huge number do. That will soon top £245, you can bet that. How much did a Westminister Council badge used to cost? The guts of £400 as I remember...

 

[ops1]

Im not sure how I feel about it. Im just finishing a job in Kabul, and to be honest, what I have seen is quite scarey, (not terrorist wise), but young lads with a plastic SIA badge thinking they can take the world on. Thier professionalism is totally rubbish, useless. They are clueless. When dealing with clients, continue to swear, fart and ask for references, gobb smacking. In one case, a pistol was waved around almost hitting the client in the face, stupidity in the highest form.

What am I saying, you ask?..................

well, I thought The SIA was supposed to standardise the industry,
Just because you have an SIA card does not mean you are a Bodyguard.
Young guys need to learn, for sure, we all have to start somewhere.
Gaining an SIA licence, it does not end there
Why not find a mentor, shut up, look, listen and learn.

Old school, may be OLD in some eyes, but you cant beat learning from expierienced guys.

 

[seb]

If they scrap SIA one thing is certain : Im going to sue UK !
Yes Im serius Im going to sue bastards who made SIA and scrapped SIA ;
for lost of money and time( all certificates and acreditaion straight to bin>>>)
lost of earnings. (hahaha im running sia trainings from yesterday I recived 2 calls from training that I have finishe if students have thair money back because aparently there will be no SIA soon...just waiting what today bring....)
I was preparing next training ...and gues what I belive that guys who wish to attend ...will wait now until situation will be solved ...wich means my bank will need to wait for my mortgage next month hahahahha(but honestly that is not funny)

SEB

 

[db1]

If the SIA goes, standards will drop.
QUOTE]

Standards dropped when the sia came along!!!!!!

I have never supported the sia and never will.

Before they came, you wanted a job, you were recommended. Not the left over crap that is and has entered the industry of late, the job centre sent, the want to look hard, previously, if you couldn't back things up, you didn't work.

With the sudden influx of idiots, the ability to negotiate better wages was lost, far too many jf's to fill spaces, team honor was also lost. They didn't care about the job or their colleagues.

I didn't and don't care why or if any of my team had a criminal record.
What was important was the morals between the team, the back up, as a team we were one.

Call me old school, prehistoric, don't care. Bring back, if not in the old format, a form of local licensing.
Bring back the respect and honor that used to be.