rickpoacher
Full Registered User
Just put on a clip on mirror and you have an extendable under vehicle search device ....lol 
UK & law re expandable batons
- Thread starter fergussheppard
- Start date
TobyatAssec
Full Registered User
This is a tricky one... this type of thing is governed by ACPO in the UK (try googleing it and ask them for a definitve answer) As far as I understand it, essentially as a civilian you are legally allowed to carry one on your person but as soon as you 'deploy it' you are breaking the law. Hand cuffs are another one - being cuff trained does not mean you should ever use them! (cans and worms)
Stoney
Super Moderator
Sorry to be picky Toby,
But a baton is defined as an offensive weapon, meaning that its carriage is in itself an offence, even if you don't deploy it you will almost certainly be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon.
As for cuffs, you can carry and use them, but like all use of force actions you must be able to prove it was justified and reasonable in the circumstances.
Regards,
Stoney
But a baton is defined as an offensive weapon, meaning that its carriage is in itself an offence, even if you don't deploy it you will almost certainly be arrested for possession of an offensive weapon.
As for cuffs, you can carry and use them, but like all use of force actions you must be able to prove it was justified and reasonable in the circumstances.
Regards,
Stoney
Sorry to disagree mate but it is illegal to buy, possess or carry side handled batons in the UK unless you are MOD plod, or UK police officer.
This is cut and pasted from NITON999 site.
Due to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Amendment Order 2004, it is illegal to sell any straight, side handled or friction lock Truncheons / Batons. Niton will only sell items to Police, Armed forces or other persons working for the Crown. Any orders must be accompanied by a written order and satisfactory proof of identity. Items only delivered to bona-fide addresses
Also checked (again) with police mate and hes confirmed that it has been illegal since 2004. If you had one in your home and for whatever reason the police called you would be arrested under the above act.
And to double check this, i asked a friend who has a shop and he said the same, he at one time could sell them but even having one in the shop now would get his collar felt.
Hope this clarifies this thread.
KTM
dannyboy489
Longterm Registered User
That's as maybe but if you order one mail order from overseas then there are a few less scrupulous people out there that will supply.
There really is no need for a baton though or a 4 cell maglite. My guys all use plastic torches and they are bright yellow! about as un threatening as you can get BUT they are extremely rugged, still use 2 D cell batteries and if by chance they happen to be used in self defence as a weapon of opportunity then I'm fairly sure the person on the other end would definitely still know about it the next morning!
TobyatAssec
Full Registered User
I think a side handled batton is possibly a different story - I know even a maglite with a side handle becomes an illegal carry. I'm not sure about extendable battons - I have it on good authority that they can be carried but by no means would stand by that. Cheers, Toby
D
Deleted member 33
Guest
Telescopic Wheel Brace
As listed in S 141 Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 the telescopic truncheon is classed as an ‘offensive weapon’ in the UK.
A telescopic wheel brace placed in your car however, extends from 33cm to 53cm and gives extra torque for easier removal of wheel nuts.
Rich H
upcheckonetwo
Longterm Registered User
CJA 88 does not apply to Security Companies using headed notepaper purchasing batons for export overseas! A security operative acting as a "Courier" can transport the baton on the companies behalf to its delivery destination. The baton needs to go into the aircraft hold. Upon returning to the UK the baton is returned to the security company for servicing. It needs to be placed into a sealed tube and display a label stating it is being returned to the company to be serviced and the person carrying the baton in a sealed tube is the authourised courier acting on the security companies behalf!
I cut and paste a open source document details of the uk expert are contained within should anyone wish to seek further clarification on this subject... kind regards Upcheck....
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988 (OFFENSIVE WEAPONS) (AMENDMENT) ORDER 2004.
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)(Amendment) Order 2004 (S.I.2004/1271) (“the Order”) will come into force on 5 June 2004. This circular draws attention to the provisions of the Order which has been made under the order-making powers in Section 141 (2) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
This Order has been introduced as a result of public safety concerns relating to the existence of stealth knives and truncheons. Stealth knives are non metallic hunting or stiletto knives, made of a range of materials, such as nylon zytel or high impact plastic. Although they look like conventional knives, they are difficult to detect by security apparatus. This measure aims to improve airline security.
Effect of the Order
2. The Order adds two new weapons, stealth knives and truncheons, to the list of weapons contained in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988. The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 details the weapons to which Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 applies. Consequently it is now an offence under section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, for a person to manufacture, sell, import, hire, offer for sale or hire, expose or have in their possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lend or give to any other person a stealth knife or a truncheon. A person convicted under section 141 shall be liable on summary conviction to a maximum term of six months imprisonment and/or a fine not exceeding the sum of £5000 (level 5 on the standard scale). The Order applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
3. It should be noted that the Order does not create an offence of simple possession of a stealth knife or truncheon. However the design and construction of stealth knives and truncheons is such that their possession in public, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, may be unlawful either under section 1(1) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 or section 139 (1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
4. Section 1(1) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to have an offensive weapon in a public place. An offensive weapon is defined in section 1(4) of that Act as, “any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him, or by some other person”. Section 139 (1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence for a person to have with him in a public place, without good reason or lawful authority, any sharply pointed article or any article having a blade(folding pocket knives are excluded unless the cutting edge of the blade exceeds three inches (7.62 cms). In the case of DPP v Hynde [1998] the Court took notice of the fact that an item was unlawful under the Criminal Justice Act 1988 in deciding it was clearly meant for causing injury.
Stealth knives and Truncheons
5. The Order defines a stealth knife as “a knife or spike, which has a blade, or sharp point, made from a material that is not readily detectable by apparatus used for detecting metal and which is not designed for domestic use or for use in the processing, preparation or consumption of food or as a toy”.
6. The Order defines a truncheon as “a straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon (sometimes known as a baton).” “Telescopic truncheons” are already contained in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988.
7. The definition for a stealth knife has been carefully drawn up to deal with a specific type of knife and there are two key parts to it. The knife must
Exemptions
9. Conduct for the purposes of functions carried out on behalf of the Crown, or a visiting force, are subject to a defence under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act. So too is conduct for the purposes of making the weapons available to museums or galleries and the loan or hire of such weapons by museums and galleries for cultural, artistic or educational purposes. Section 141 of the Act should be referred to for the defences.
10. The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988f excludes antique weapons and provides that, “a weapon is an antique if it was manufactured more than 100 years before the date of any offence alleged to have been committed in respect of that weapon under subsection (1) of the said section 141 or section 50(2) or (3) of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 (improper importation).”
Contact Points.
11. Any enquires about this circular should be addressed in the first place to Jonathan Batt, 0207 273 3885.
MICHAEL GILLESPIE
Head of Public Order and Crime Issues Unit
June 2004
I cut and paste a open source document details of the uk expert are contained within should anyone wish to seek further clarification on this subject... kind regards Upcheck....
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 1988 (OFFENSIVE WEAPONS) (AMENDMENT) ORDER 2004.
The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons)(Amendment) Order 2004 (S.I.2004/1271) (“the Order”) will come into force on 5 June 2004. This circular draws attention to the provisions of the Order which has been made under the order-making powers in Section 141 (2) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
This Order has been introduced as a result of public safety concerns relating to the existence of stealth knives and truncheons. Stealth knives are non metallic hunting or stiletto knives, made of a range of materials, such as nylon zytel or high impact plastic. Although they look like conventional knives, they are difficult to detect by security apparatus. This measure aims to improve airline security.
Effect of the Order
2. The Order adds two new weapons, stealth knives and truncheons, to the list of weapons contained in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988. The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 details the weapons to which Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 applies. Consequently it is now an offence under section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, for a person to manufacture, sell, import, hire, offer for sale or hire, expose or have in their possession for the purpose of sale or hire or lend or give to any other person a stealth knife or a truncheon. A person convicted under section 141 shall be liable on summary conviction to a maximum term of six months imprisonment and/or a fine not exceeding the sum of £5000 (level 5 on the standard scale). The Order applies to England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
3. It should be noted that the Order does not create an offence of simple possession of a stealth knife or truncheon. However the design and construction of stealth knives and truncheons is such that their possession in public, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, may be unlawful either under section 1(1) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 or section 139 (1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.
4. Section 1(1) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence for any person, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, to have an offensive weapon in a public place. An offensive weapon is defined in section 1(4) of that Act as, “any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him, or by some other person”. Section 139 (1) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence for a person to have with him in a public place, without good reason or lawful authority, any sharply pointed article or any article having a blade(folding pocket knives are excluded unless the cutting edge of the blade exceeds three inches (7.62 cms). In the case of DPP v Hynde [1998] the Court took notice of the fact that an item was unlawful under the Criminal Justice Act 1988 in deciding it was clearly meant for causing injury.
Stealth knives and Truncheons
5. The Order defines a stealth knife as “a knife or spike, which has a blade, or sharp point, made from a material that is not readily detectable by apparatus used for detecting metal and which is not designed for domestic use or for use in the processing, preparation or consumption of food or as a toy”.
6. The Order defines a truncheon as “a straight, side-handled or friction-lock truncheon (sometimes known as a baton).” “Telescopic truncheons” are already contained in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988.
7. The definition for a stealth knife has been carefully drawn up to deal with a specific type of knife and there are two key parts to it. The knife must
- Be made from a material that is not readily detectable by apparatus used for detecting metal
- Is not designed for domestic use or for use in the processing, preparation or consumption of food or as a toy.
Exemptions
9. Conduct for the purposes of functions carried out on behalf of the Crown, or a visiting force, are subject to a defence under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act. So too is conduct for the purposes of making the weapons available to museums or galleries and the loan or hire of such weapons by museums and galleries for cultural, artistic or educational purposes. Section 141 of the Act should be referred to for the defences.
10. The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988f excludes antique weapons and provides that, “a weapon is an antique if it was manufactured more than 100 years before the date of any offence alleged to have been committed in respect of that weapon under subsection (1) of the said section 141 or section 50(2) or (3) of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 (improper importation).”
Contact Points.
11. Any enquires about this circular should be addressed in the first place to Jonathan Batt, 0207 273 3885.
MICHAEL GILLESPIE
Head of Public Order and Crime Issues Unit
June 2004
No one seems to have approached this from a point of view of justifying you having an expandable for training purposes.
i have a training room in my house, its a bit marshal arts style with wooden training stock on the wall ect, but in my store cabinet (lockable) i have a expandable batton and a rubber tipped knife. I use it for training, something i regularly do with a few training buddys is go though deployment and strike teqs..
The batton is not a street issue version though , its designed for training, with a thinner end so not to damage bags , and a much thicker short stock, (this means it can be racked several thousand times and not wear) but still if it was required its a very effective weapon.
from a police point of view this isnt designed to cause harm, it can be adapted but its not made for, so quite possibly justifyable.
just a thought, also i have something called "bouncer" spray in the car like CS but street legal, most british police so long as its identififed as much wont batton an eye lid (excuse the pun).
kind regards all
i have a training room in my house, its a bit marshal arts style with wooden training stock on the wall ect, but in my store cabinet (lockable) i have a expandable batton and a rubber tipped knife. I use it for training, something i regularly do with a few training buddys is go though deployment and strike teqs..
The batton is not a street issue version though , its designed for training, with a thinner end so not to damage bags , and a much thicker short stock, (this means it can be racked several thousand times and not wear) but still if it was required its a very effective weapon.
from a police point of view this isnt designed to cause harm, it can be adapted but its not made for, so quite possibly justifyable.
just a thought, also i have something called "bouncer" spray in the car like CS but street legal, most british police so long as its identififed as much wont batton an eye lid (excuse the pun).
kind regards all
Nexus - I own a number of extendible batons which get used in training. However thats not illegal. Its fine to own them. Just now your not allowed to buy/sell/public place. This is designed to cut down the numbers in existence without making lots of persons who still own them criminals lol .
This same thing has happened with blank firers.
.This same thing has happened with blank firers.
Once again if that spray causes a reaction or causes some type of harm it could be argued that it is 'Offensive'
but officer i honestly play alot of baseball
BATTA, BATTA, BATTA, BATTER UP !
I saw a steering wheel lock once, that was shaped like a baseball bat,
but made of steel, any one out there seen 'em,
or is my mind playing tricks again.
BATTA, BATTA, BATTA, BATTER UP !
I saw a steering wheel lock once, that was shaped like a baseball bat,
but made of steel, any one out there seen 'em,
or is my mind playing tricks again.
Afternoon Oddjob
Saw a wooden walking stick that opened out (slid out) to reveal a nasty metal spike, which was the same length as the stick. The cross section of it would of looked like a triangle. It was very nasty looking. The stick was not smooth and looked more country style that had been made from a branch/twig with notches, hence the bloody shock.
Regards
JHD
I carry a 3 cell maglight and a pair of slash proof gloves in my vehicle since I was threatened by a lorry driver wielding a bowie type knife on the M25 a couple of years ago. Had the circumstances been slightly different he would have been talking to Mr Glock
TommyS
TommyS