Pre-emptive Knife taking

J

james0000

Full Registered User
Guys,

Situation: 0500hrs sunday, 1x male walking around area, with a can of beer within a site I am protecting:

Action: Arrive on scene on the other side of fence! Was speaking to individual. as talking, noticed handel of Knife sticking out of front belly pocket in his hoody he was wearing.

Position: I was behind fence however I decided to pre-empt to grab the Knife (7inch Kitchen Knife) whilst making conversation and throw Knife behind me. I was in no way threatend at this stage however I thought that this guy was a threat.

What Happened: When I went to grab Kitchen Knife, he struggled and regained control and started gobbing off...

Basically I feel I was in the wrong for trying to get knife from Individual but on the other hand i thought it was better to prevent than have a situation:

Outcome: This guy ended up gettin a sentence for carrying a knife.

Was I in the right or wrong for trying to gab knife.....?? I would love the experience guys to give advice..Was i right or wrong to attempt to grab knife?

Cheers

Jim
 
Why didn't you just back off, return to your office and call the Police?

If it was just me I wouldn't have even attempted anything. What would you have done if he fell over as you grabbed the knife and it stabbed him? I think you might have found yourself in court. What would you have done if he overpowered you and stabbed you? Was what you protecting worth the possibility of becoming another murder victim?
 
The police were called anyway as soon as we turned up and they eventually arrested the guy. I know i was wrong to even attempt to grab Knife and maybe escalate situation but I strongly believed to go for it..Fight or flight....
 
James, The guy was a threat, he was a trespasser on private property with a knife. You made your decision due to what you saw and felt at the time and took what you thought was the appropriate action. I wouldnt beat myself up about it, no one is hurt and he,s been nicked.
 
You were not in the wrong.

Offensive weapon is obvious since he as the immediate control and the context of carriage put it squarely in the illegal fold.

It would not be theft assuming you intended to pass the weapon to police or even arrest the chump for having it, even then can someone dishonestly appropriate an offensive weapon from someone??

Don't sweat it.
 
Guys, thankyou for you wisdom...I am new at this game however I believed at the the time it was the the right choice to make but I got a bit of stick from my work mates...I will always learn from my mistakes...it will will make me a much better operator.
 
James just think twice next time, even the police would want to ensure sufficient numbers before doing what you did.

You did nothing wrong and no one was hurt, but think of the safety issues if it had gone pear shaped.

You have a familly to go home to after work.
 
james0000 said:
Guys, thankyou for you wisdom...I am new at this game however I believed at the the time it was the the right choice to make but I got a bit of stick from my work mates...I will always learn from my mistakes...it will will make me a much better operator.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you do what you do, or you do what you feel you have got to do. Phecta's post cannot be argued with but when push comes to shove people do do things all the time just because its the right thing to do or seems right in that moment.
 
Its important that you live and learn......but you have to live to learn....bare that in mind...

the next lesson you might not be so lucky...

that said dont beat yourself up about it....

j.
 
Threat

James, as all the rest have said don't beat yourself up over it. You had a decision to make based on the information you had in front of you, nobody got hurt and the idiot got arrested. For me the biggest point in all this is that you probably stopped somebody later on down the line getting robbed or even worse, the male was obviously carrying the weapon for a reason!!

In relation to theft if you kept it etc, that would never happen as the object in the first place is illegal and I would hardly think he would of reported you stealing a knife off him when he shouldn't of had it in the first place!!

Just remember safety always comes first in whatever line of work you are in, we all want to go home at the end of the day!!
 
James...I think you have answered your own question here. Even if you were not feeling stressed at the time of the incident, your subconscious was and your brain had an Amegdalic response (Flight, Fight or Freeze). This type of response is instantaneous and as such you are bound to sit and question what transpired afterword's. Accept that your brains sole function there was to protect you and keep all its vial organs operational and out of harms way. Your safe, your brain has achieved its goal and we will happily not have to read about the true intentions of the idiot offender with the knife. If you still not sure of yourself can I suggest you read The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker (no I'm not on a commission etc). If more people in harms way understood the physiology of what happens in these types of situation then we would have a lot less suffering with the likes of PTSD.

Hope this helps...Stay Safe
 
Obviously you felt threatened or your actions would have been different ,non of us were put in your situation and only you can judge what action to take.
We have all had situations when we question our actions but always remember your life is precious and you only have one, so cherish it my friend.

NASH..
 
Other side of a fence, more than likely pissed up, you are not going to et many knife jobs where you have that level of advantage. So you made a decision, took a risk and it had a positive outcome. Well done for trying, just be careful not to replicate it in a more confrontational situation.

Keep one thing in mind, when a bobby turns up, he has to tackle that knife wielding idiot, a stick and some sure for women often doesn't work. So your actions were in the best interest of everyone. You potentially could have saved a life, be proud of your actions.

Have a go hero's, right or wrong, if there were more criminals would be much less successful.
 
Answer your own question, as you are the one with first hand knowledge.
Would you take the same course of action again ?
What would you do differently ?

What experience or training do you have in Knife combat/defence.
You aggrevated a situation that you seemed to have contained.
You certainly ramped up the potential for an unequal conflict.
Our knife carrying pal, is now annoyed, adrenalin flowing and angered, that didn't help the police arrest I would guess, or potentailly escalated the danger.
How compromised was your path of attack, what sort of fence was defending you and like wise impeding you.
Training and experience, muscle memory and rapid training based evaluation of situations is the way to go.
You've started on that course by conducting a debriefing on here.
What means of comm's did you have, to inform others of the escalation of the situation with the presence of a knife.
Do you have a covert signal to inform others or do you have to use a mobile to keep others alert.
Had you checked that it was on, and had a signal.
You must examine in detail, what happened, the options, and how you can increase the power of control to such a scenario.
Not to do so, would be negligent to your future safety and those of others.
Saying all that, well done for getting a very great danger off the street.
Help yourself to help others.
You deserve it.
 
Experiance is the final exam followed by the lesson. Wise words from the guys on here however do not dwell on what if's or what you should of or could of done as its happened so learn from it. As Oddjob said though, in the future maybe take a few moments to think rather than act then make your decision based on that rather then instinct. And get yourself on an underwater knife fighting course to sling the odds in your favour.

Coley, Out.
 
Sort of high lights the importance of wearing that vest on duty.
You just never know when you're going to need it.
 
Very true. I know guys that have had weird and wonderful sharp pointy things pointed at them whilst protecting their 'castle' and that is exactley what they said with regards to vests and SR gloves. Funny that.
 
Having been in several edged weapon encounters and engaged the individual and disarmed them and put them on the ground in handcuffs, (this is in the US) as long as you can articulate in the Police Report that the individual is a threat to YOU or to Someone else or is Trespassing on private property then you must exercise your duties as the Agent of the site. However, you need to have the knowledge and the experience (through practice) to recognize how someone carries the knife or holds it and know the limits of your skill as to whether you can go hands on. Again the most important part is Officer Safety, along with confidence in your ability and of course controlling the weapon and also the subject. At the end of the day due to the way you say he was carrying the knife you very well could have saved someone else's life by being proactive and going with your instinct, as when alcohol is involved or any other substance abuse people most certainly lose certain inhibitions that us Sheepdogs have to others.
So sleep soundly as you made the right decision that night.
 
Oddjob said:
Sort of high lights the importance of wearing that vest on duty.
You just never know when you're going to need it.
Click to expand...

And also having a pair of gloves in your belt... Good gloves, with good leather palms and to be in receipt of good training as OJ suggests... but hey, enough has been stated and said... CD
 
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